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International relations thread

Phil Sayers

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angelic upstart

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What's everyone's thoughts on the leader of the neo Nazis in Ukraine slating the Ukrainian govt saying they'd been left alone for the last eight years and the army had basically done nothing and are still leaving them to die now?

You'd think that now as the Russians have more than 20% of the country and 80% of the coast in their hands some people might see that the media isn't necessarily portraying the Russians losing this quite as honestly as you'd believe.
 

DB9

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What's everyone's thoughts on the leader of the neo Nazis in Ukraine slating the Ukrainian govt saying they'd been left alone for the last eight years and the army had basically done nothing and are still leaving them to die now?

You'd think that now as the Russians have more than 20% of the country and 80% of the coast in their hands some people might see that the media isn't necessarily portraying the Russians losing this quite as honestly as you'd believe.
Disinformation?
 

angelic upstart

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Disinformation?
The nazi bod is on the BBC saying it. We all know, the war has only been waged for 74 days. Meaning the previous 8 years has erased from history already.

You can see what the Russians have by looking at a map. So I can't see it being disinformation myself.
 

Phil Sayers

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What the Russians have is more a case of one step forward and two steps back. Ukraine is reclaiming more territory than the Russians are taking.
 

angelic upstart

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Another Russia question for those with any knowledge/interest in WW2.

The Soviets lost the most soldiers, killed the most Nazis and captured Berlin in 1945 which largely signalled the end of the war.

Why do the British and the Americans underplay this?

The reason I ask, is I see Russia having their annual military parade to celebrate what they believe is their war winning efforts. Ben Wallace has suggested this is trying to intimidate the world, when actually they do this every year, and are proud of what they see as a decent achievement in ridding the world of Hitler.
 

Alistair20000

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Another Russia question for those with any knowledge/interest in WW2.

The Soviets lost the most soldiers, killed the most Nazis and captured Berlin in 1945 which largely signalled the end of the war.

Why do the British and the Americans underplay this?

The reason I ask, is I see Russia having their annual military parade to celebrate what they believe is their war winning efforts. Ben Wallace has suggested this is trying to intimidate the world, when actually they do this every year, and are proud of what they see as a decent achievement in ridding the world of Hitler.
The USA did of course "allow" Soviet Russia to take Berlin as part of the Yalta agreement. Here is a bit of commentary.

The Soviet advance and ultimate capture of the German capital was not opposed by the Western Allies. In an effort to avoid a diplomatic issue, US Army General of the Army Dwight Eisenhower had ordered his forces into the south of Germany to cut off and to wipe out other pieces of the Wehrmacht and to avoid the possibility that the German government would attempt to hold out in a national redoubt in the Alps.

The Western Allies left eastern Germany and the city of Berlin to the Red Army. The Yalta Conference had already determined that both Germany and Berlin would be divided into four zones of occupation.


I don't think the Russian WW11 effort was or is underplayed by USA and GB and let's not forget all the merchant navy efforts and sacrifices on the Arctic convoys to keep the Soviet Union supplied.

And is this really necessary to honour the fallen in WW11 ? Compare with how we "remember" at the Cenotaph and around the country every November

A fly-past over St Basil's Cathedral will include supersonic fighters, Tu-160 strategic bombers and, for the first time since 2010, the Il-80 "doomsday" command plane, which would carry Russia's top brass in the event of a nuclear war, the Defence Ministry said.

In that scenario, the Il-80 is designed to become the roaming command centre for the Russian president. It is packed with technology but specific details are Russian state secrets.


The problem with the Victory Parade today it that it has been used as more than a recognition of WW11. Putin the Count has hijacked it to argue that his illegal and brutal invasion of Ukraine is justified and down to the threat of invasion by NATO and the West of Russian territory. The usual utter turd of course.

I have not seen exactly what Ben Wallace has said and context is very important.
 

angelic upstart

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The USA did of course "allow" Soviet Russia to take Berlin as part of the Yalta agreement. Here is a bit of commentary.

The Soviet advance and ultimate capture of the German capital was not opposed by the Western Allies. In an effort to avoid a diplomatic issue, US Army General of the Army Dwight Eisenhower had ordered his forces into the south of Germany to cut off and to wipe out other pieces of the Wehrmacht and to avoid the possibility that the German government would attempt to hold out in a national redoubt in the Alps.

The Western Allies left eastern Germany and the city of Berlin to the Red Army. The Yalta Conference had already determined that both Germany and Berlin would be divided into four zones of occupation.


I don't think the Russian WW11 effort was or is underplayed by USA and GB and let's not forget all the merchant navy efforts and sacrifices on the Arctic convoys to keep the Soviet Union supplied.

And is this really necessary to honour the fallen in WW11 ? Compare with how we "remember" at the Cenotaph and around the country every November

A fly-past over St Basil's Cathedral will include supersonic fighters, Tu-160 strategic bombers and, for the first time since 2010, the Il-80 "doomsday" command plane, which would carry Russia's top brass in the event of a nuclear war, the Defence Ministry said.

In that scenario, the Il-80 is designed to become the roaming command centre for the Russian president. It is packed with technology but specific details are Russian state secrets.


The problem with the Victory Parade today it that it has been used as more than a recognition of WW11. Putin the Count has hijacked it to argue that his illegal and brutal invasion of Ukraine is justified and down to the threat of invasion by NATO and the West of Russian territory. The usual utter turd of course.

I have not seen exactly what Ben Wallace has said and context is very important.
Appreciate the response, thanks. I'm not trying (for once) to be difficult or being a WUM. I legit don't think we give the Russians enough credit for their ww2 efforts. But maybe that's just the circles I hang out in, and my age.

I totally agree re cenotaph and having a victory parade, but clearly it's "always" been done that way out their and they see it as pride in their achievements. I'd personally find it ott and crass if Britain did the same.
 

tavyred

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Appreciate the response, thanks. I'm not trying (for once) to be difficult or being a WUM. I legit don't think we give the Russians enough credit for their ww2 efforts. But maybe that's just the circles I hang out in, and my age.
Its probably down to the fact that the Soviet Union started the war in cahoots Nazi Germany, became an ally to the West for a couple of years and then opted pretty quickly after the war to become our adversary again.
 

angelic upstart

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Its probably down to the fact that the Soviet Union started the war in cahoots Nazi Germany, became an ally to the West for a couple of years and then opted pretty quickly after the war to become our adversary again.
Seems I was way off the mark as ever and you a small bit. Judging by the Daily Mirror 37 years ago today FSVPC1eXsAci3kw.pngFSVPDodXsAITSCU.jpeg
 
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