• We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. If you continue without changing your settings, we'll assume that you are happy to receive all cookies from this website. Read more here

Politics Today

tavyred

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
13,909
Kier has just released a document on his "Vision for Labour".

John McDonnell was quick off the mark to rubbish it calling it a long essay unlikely to inspire voters and likening it to "the Sermon on the Mount written by a focus group".

You go girl! Handbags at dawn.
A big conference week for Sir Keith ahead. Looks like he is going to test his authority over the party with his attempt to change how the leader is chosen, he’s apparently trying to revert back to the system which gives the parliamentary party a very big say into who gets the top job. There will be a large part of the rank and file who will fight this change rigorously.
It won’t have helped that Rayner gave a rumbustious performance in PMQ’s yesterday, she was a bit ‘class war’ for my taste, but it would’ve gone down well with the hard left of the party, especially a large part of the membership who view Starmer as ineffective, wishy washy and bordering on a Blairite. He obviously needs a good conference leader’s speech as well.
 

Mr Jinx

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
14,799
He obviously needs a good conference leader’s speech as well.
I think as far as Sir K goes, anything will be too little too late. He's not going to tear it up with a barnstorming speech. Even if he does, lots of people and especially the right leaning media will just dismiss it as contrived.

He just isn't the man but Labour are probably stuck with him until the next election. And let's face it, whoever is at their helm at the next GE it's merely a damage limitation exercise. They'll probably still lose, just a question of how many seats they can claw back. Given boundary changes and voter registration is in the offing, it's unlikely to be that many. 10-20 I am guessing. The Tories biggest threat is probably the Lib Dems in patches down South.
 

tavyred

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
13,909
I think as far as Sir K goes, anything will be too little too late. He's not going to tear it up with a barnstorming speech. Even if he does, lots of people and especially the right leaning media will just dismiss it as contrived.

He just isn't the man but Labour are probably stuck with him until the next election. And let's face it, whoever is at their helm at the next GE it's merely a damage limitation exercise. They'll probably still lose, just a question of how many seats they can claw back. Given boundary changes and voter registration is in the offing, it's unlikely to be that many. 10-20 I am guessing. The Tories biggest threat is probably the Lib Dems in patches down South.
I do wonder if prioritising the leadership election changes are an admission by Starmer that he isn’t the man to win and it’s important that the next man/woman in charge is not some sort of unelectable darling of the hard left.
FWIW, I do think Starmer needs to reference England specifically in his speech and a bit like Kinnock did, speak directly to the country and admit that he has a problem with an out of touch far left rump in his party.
 

DB9

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
24,504
Location
Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
Labour do have a tradition of letting a leader fight a GE, sometimes two then if he or she fails out they go, I think the Tories didn't even give IDS that chance, They got rid forthwith. I thought Rayner v Raab was interesting and Ms Rayner did a pretty good job on him.
 

Mr Jinx

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
14,799
I do wonder if prioritising the leadership election changes are an admission by Starmer that he isn’t the man to win and it’s important that the next man/woman in charge is not some sort of unelectable darling of the hard left.
Possibly, but given that Kier himself is not exactly hard left, I don't see why he should.

I think Corbyn was a bit of an aberration; Labourites just got swept up in the whole romance of it. Until it turned to dung that is. Burnham, if he does end up being the next chosen one, certainly isn't what I'd consider hard left.
 

DB9

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
24,504
Location
Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
Possibly, but given that Kier himself is not exactly hard left, I don't see why he should.

I think Corbyn was a bit of an aberration; Labourites just got swept up in the whole romance of it. Until it turned to dung that is. Burnham, if he does end up being the next chosen one, certainly isn't what I'd consider hard left.
The UK is neither hard left or right, We're centralist nation historically and while the odd left or right leader is voted to lead a party, Very rarely do they win power, Labour has to admit the man who won 3 GE's was Blair and people voted for him.
 

Mr Jinx

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
14,799
The UK is neither hard left or right, We're centralist nation historically and while the odd left or right leader is voted to lead a party, Very rarely do they win power
And it's fairly evident that it's not right or left that wins power, but personality/charisma of the leader:

Blair v Major - no contest
Blair v Hague - no contest
Blair v Howard - no contest (despite Iraq)
Cameron v Brown - no contest (although Clegg spoiled the party somewhat)
Cameron v Miliband - no contest
May v Corbyn - close call, Jezza by a nose
Boris v Corbyn - no contest

Anyone out there thinking Boris v Starmer might not follow suit?
 

tavyred

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
13,909
I think Corbyn was a bit of an aberration; Labourites just got swept up in the whole romance of it. Until it turned to dung that is. Burnham, if he does end up being the next chosen one, certainly isn't what I'd consider hard left.
Corbyn was an aberration, but it was directly caused by the three quid member one person, one vote system Labour adopted.
I think Burnham would be the right choice next time round, but if Labour don’t change its system they run the risk of the rank and file installing some nutter like Rayner in as leader instead.
 

Mr Jinx

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
14,799
Corbyn was an aberration, but it was directly caused by the three quid member one person, one vote system Labour adopted.
I disagree.

Sure, the £3 thing was a contributing factor but, being on many other forums and boards at the time, as soon as Corbyn put his name forward back in 2015 I was taken aback at the widespread love in. And this wasn't just looney lefties, it was across the spectrum.

This convinced me that he was going to win and so I put my money down at 14-1. If I had done it a day earlier it would've been 80-1, but it took me a day to get a feel for things on the boards. People just got completely swept away and in the end it wasn't even close. Lots simply felt it was time for a complete change in tack. That was before its inevitable demise of course, when everyone then goes and blames Corbyn. Doh.
 
Last edited:

Mr Jinx

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
14,799
On another note, sadly it looks like panic buying is back. Lots of shelves at our Sainsburys are bare. Not as bad as March last year and I'm hoping we don't go back there. FFS
 
Top