Vaccine found 90% successful

[Hants_red]

This is a worthwhile background reading

Covid-19: Will a vaccine give us our old lives back? - BBC News

Why vaccines need to reach a huge number of people before we can safely ditch our face masks.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Legohead]

Well yes, you have those that won't taking any vaccines come what may. But that's still a small percentage.

What you have to factor in here is this vaccine has been rushed out like never before. There'll be even more, not necessarily anti-vaxxers by true definition, of those unwilling to inject themselves with something that is quite an unknown. Given the young usually only get mild symptoms, I'm sure a lot of them will probably think that catching CV is actually probably less risky.

I probably fall more into the latter category. I'm not against taking a vaccine per se, but certainly won't be taking one until Sept next year at the earliest. What might force my hand would be something like my employer insisting that I take one, or something like ECFC saying you can't buy tickets for a game unless you show us your jab certification. I'm not going to take one just because the Government says I should, greater good or not.

It'll be an interesting time.

Just came across this whilst perusing various threads.

I have always had a natural tendency to avoid medicines if at all possible. Partly due to mistrust of the medical profession due to previous poor experiences and partly due to a natural fear of the unknown, which i have recently discovered is because of my mental health condition. I'm far more risk averse than the average Joe. Therefore, taking the vaccine presents lots of problems for me.

It's a dichotomy. I'm one of those blokes who would rather suffer for years due to a medical problem than take some pills that the patient safety leaflet that accompanies the pills declares is safe. Yet 1 in a 1000 could have a fatal heart attack for example being one of the side effects according to the leaflet.

Once it's in then it's in. Therefore, once the vaccine is in then i have no choice what happens afterwards (if anything. The anxiety of having to live with this daily wouldl far outweigh the short term anxiety i would be faced with if i contracted Covid. Hopefully with Covid, i'd be rough for a few weeks and then be ok. I am reasonably confident i have already had Covid (without an antibody test - based on what my GP advised ), but i know people can get it again.

Given my age and the fact that i don't have any of the serious conditions that would require shielding, i'd be confident that i could fend off Covid without the need for a vaccine.

I also have concerns about the vaccine in so much as the long term data is not known and this is simply because it's a new vaccine and nobody has a time machine at the MRHA. This doesn't stop the lack of long term studies being a safety consideration however. We have no way of knowing what affects of the vaccine will be in 5 years time for example because we haven't had 5 years of clinical trials. Only the passage of time can answer this question and therefore it boils down to trust.

The MRHA say it's safe. But they cannot guarantee it is. It is safe according to all known parameters that they have been able to test for, as much as they have been able to with a vaccine that has been rolled out at short notice but this is not the same as it actually being 100% safe.

There are a few doubts, such as there have been no clinical trials conducted on how the vaccine may interact with various medications / medicines.

They also do not know whether vaccinated people can transmit the virus to others which is perhaps the only reason for me to take the vaccine. If it was proven that by having the vaccine, this stopped transmission then i would have a societal duty to get the vaccine to protect others. As it stands though, the only people protected with the jab are those who have been vaccinated. Even then you can still catch it and become ill, although to a much lesser effect.

I think it's important to get some perspective and over 99% of people of all ages who get Covid will be absolutely fine according to the stats, yet we've been brainwashed by the media into convincing ourselves that it's certain death if we get it which has not been helpful at all.

So, as it stands i will not be having the vaccine but if it becomes proven to stop spread to others then i'd have it to protect others. In the meantime, if my freedoms are restricted in the sense that i can't go to the theatre or go abroad if i haven't had the vaccine then i'd accept that for a good few years until i was satisfied of it's safety longer term.

I'm not an anti vaxxer and it really annoys me that the media portray everyone who is genuinely concerned about the vaccine as a raving lunatic or conspiracy theorist rather than actually have the debate about why this might be the case that they are concerned.

If i was over 70 or over 60 with serious health concerns then i'd have it. No brainer but as it stands i'm happy to take it steady and take the risk. Unless the data on stopping transmission is proven once and for all.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Just came across this whilst perusing various threads.

I have always had a natural tendency to avoid medicines if at all possible. Partly due to mistrust of the medical profession due to previous poor experiences and partly due to a natural fear of the unknown, which i have recently discovered is because of my mental health condition. I'm far more risk averse than the average Joe. Therefore, taking the vaccine presents lots of problems for me.

It's a dichotomy. I'm one of those blokes who would rather suffer for years due to a medical problem than take some pills that the patient safety leaflet that accompanies the pills declares is safe. Yet 1 in a 1000 could have a fatal heart attack for example being one of the side effects according to the leaflet.

Once it's in then it's in. Therefore, once the vaccine is in then i have no choice what happens afterwards (if anything. The anxiety of having to live with this daily wouldl far outweigh the short term anxiety i would be faced with if i contracted Covid. Hopefully with Covid, i'd be rough for a few weeks and then be ok. I am reasonably confident i have already had Covid (without an antibody test - based on what my GP advised ), but i know people can get it again.

Given my age and the fact that i don't have any of the serious conditions that would require shielding, i'd be confident that i could fend off Covid without the need for a vaccine.

I also have concerns about the vaccine in so much as the long term data is not known and this is simply because it's a new vaccine and nobody has a time machine at the MRHA. This doesn't stop the lack of long term studies being a safety consideration however. We have no way of knowing what affects of the vaccine will be in 5 years time for example because we haven't had 5 years of clinical trials. Only the passage of time can answer this question and therefore it boils down to trust.

The MRHA say it's safe. But they cannot guarantee it is. It is safe according to all known parameters that they have been able to test for, as much as they have been able to with a vaccine that has been rolled out at short notice but this is not the same as it actually being 100% safe.

There are a few doubts, such as there have been no clinical trials conducted on how the vaccine may interact with various medications / medicines.

They also do not know whether vaccinated people can transmit the virus to others which is perhaps the only reason for me to take the vaccine. If it was proven that by having the vaccine, this stopped transmission then i would have a societal duty to get the vaccine to protect others. As it stands though, the only people protected with the jab are those who have been vaccinated. Even then you can still catch it and become ill, although to a much lesser effect.

I think it's important to get some perspective and over 99% of people of all ages who get Covid will be absolutely fine according to the stats, yet we've been brainwashed by the media into convincing ourselves that it's certain death if we get it which has not been helpful at all.

So, as it stands i will not be having the vaccine but if it becomes proven to stop spread to others then i'd have it to protect others. In the meantime, if my freedoms are restricted in the sense that i can't go to the theatre or go abroad if i haven't had the vaccine then i'd accept that for a good few years until i was satisfied of it's safety longer term.

I'm not an anti vaxxer and it really annoys me that the media portray everyone who is genuinely concerned about the vaccine as a raving lunatic or conspiracy theorist rather than actually have the debate about why this might be the case that they are concerned.

If i was over 70 or over 60 with serious health concerns then i'd have it. No brainer but as it stands i'm happy to take it steady and take the risk. Unless the data on stopping transmission is proven once and for all.

Yes, a lot of tough decisions currently being made up and down the land. I was quite taken aback when I read that 80% of Brits are wanting to take the vaccine whereas in France it's less than 40%. I can only think we're a bit more brainwashed here by the MSM who spend every waking hours trying to scare us all to death. If they tried that in France I reckon it just gets met with a Gallic shrug.

It's put my wife in a real quandary. I won't be taking one till Sept at the earliest if at all, but she's in a vulnerable group. I mean she already reckons she's caught it four times already, but we don't know for sure. One minute she'll be telling her mate how long Covid is affecting her, the next it'll be a panic attack as she couldn't remember if she wiped (anti-bacterial) down the juice bottle that just came from Sainsbury's. I'm living in the worst of both worlds and it's killing us. She's an anti-vaxxer too, so she's torn as to whether to have one but I've said she'll have to make her mind up soon. The kids will be going back to school and me back to work (via tubes/trains) so the decision will be hers to make. There's a lot of wrestling going on in her head. Will the cure win over the disease? I'll let you know.

 

[tavyred]

So then Jinxy.
When the public trusted the scientists in the last century and helped them wipe polio and other diseases off the face of the earth were they similarly brainwashed?
Anti vaxxers are latter day Luddites and don’t deserve to live amongst those of us who believe that it’s part of the human condition to want to eradicate life limiting diseases for the greater good.

 

[Banksy]

My wife is in a vulnerable group. Yesterday she was offered the first dose of the vaccine at our local surgery.She’s taking it. Must say it’ll be a relief for both of us.

 

[fred binneys head]

I can understand people wanting to understand the potential pitfalls of the different types of vaccines and not taking a specific vaccine if it is high risk due to their condition. I know someone who has cancer in remission and one of the vaccines will cause issues with their pathogens, which might start the cancer up again, so they are consulting with their specialist to see which vaccine they should take. But they’re definitely going to take one of them.

To be strongly anti-vaccine is a crazy, selfish position. Do research if you wish, but take the vaccine. Only in very rare cases should not taking the vaccine be the right answer, and only ever on proven health grounds, not “I just don’t trust them” grounds.

 

[Legohead]

Just to put my record straight. I'm not an anti vaxxer. Just because someone has reservations about having a vaccine does not make them against vaccines per se. Why don't I'm sure most people say under 40 and in good health won't see a need to have the vaccine as it's a virus that in nearly all circumstances will not affect them. Many people don't have the flu vaccine for example. Yes, you can argue that Covid is a little more dangerous but flu also kills thousands each year too. Yet nobody has clamoured for everyone to be vaccinated.

If the vaccine stops them from spreading it to others then that's a whole different kettle of fish of course.

There is still a lot for us to learn and this vaccine has been sprung on us quickly and it's difficult for many to process just what is happening. Everything is happening quickly and constantly changing - which creates anxiety and uncertainty in itself.

There are many people who are simply frightened of taking general medicines, let alone new vaccines and who will need some persuading. Going down the backdoor route of getting everyone vaccinated by restricting people's access to leisure venues etc would not helpful either, if it were lawful. Such an event would just fuel the fire for people who DO harbour genuinely rigid anti vax conspiracy theorist views to maintain those views.

I'm not sure i agree with you Fred when you say that not taking the vaccine is wrong, except for very rare cases unless it was confirmed that the vaccine did actually stop the spread of the virus. Otherwise i don't see why it would affect others. If i don't get the vaccine for example, the only person that can be affected is me.

It's certainly a huge talking point anyway and one which will continue for a long time yet. I won't judge anyone who chooses to have the vaccine no more than i'd judge anyone for not having the vaccine. We all make our own choices so long as it doesn't affect anyone else and as the virus can still be spread post-vaccine as far as we know, the decision either way about the jab doesn't affect anyone else.

 

[DB9]

Just to put my record straight. I'm not an anti vaxxer. Just because someone has reservations about having a vaccine does not make them against vaccines per se. Why don't I'm sure most people say under 40 and in good health won't see a need to have the vaccine as it's a virus that in nearly all circumstances will not affect them. Many people don't have the flu vaccine for example. Yes, you can argue that Covid is a little more dangerous but flu also kills thousands each year too. Yet nobody has clamoured for everyone to be vaccinated.

If the vaccine stops them from spreading it to others then that's a whole different kettle of fish of course.

There is still a lot for us to learn and this vaccine has been sprung on us quickly and it's difficult for many to process just what is happening. Everything is happening quickly and constantly changing - which creates anxiety and uncertainty in itself.

There are many people who are simply frightened of taking general medicines, let alone new vaccines and who will need some persuading. Going down the backdoor route of getting everyone vaccinated by restricting people's access to leisure venues etc would not helpful either, if it were lawful. Such an event would just fuel the fire for people who DO harbour genuinely rigid anti vax conspiracy theorist views to maintain those views.

I'm not sure i agree with you Fred when you say that not taking the vaccine is wrong, except for very rare cases unless it was confirmed that the vaccine did actually stop the spread of the virus. Otherwise i don't see why it would affect others. If i don't get the vaccine for example, the only person that can be affected is me.

It's certainly a huge talking point anyway and one which will continue for a long time yet. I won't judge anyone who chooses to have the vaccine no more than i'd judge anyone for not having the vaccine. We all make our own choices so long as it doesn't affect anyone else and as the virus can still be spread post-vaccine as far as we know, the decision either way about the jab doesn't affect anyone else.

Not sure i get your "This vaccine sprung on us quickly" bit Lego, The virus seems to spread like wild fire and yes as you say it affects different people in different ways but when it started the need for a vaccine was imperritive and a real conserted effort by numerous sciencetists from all over the world focused on producing one as quickly and safely as possible, You focus all your efforts and throw money at research of course you'll get results quicker than normal. I'm glad they have.

Also if you listen to the calm sciencetists, Not those who seem to be "Experts" that every media outlet want of their show to poo poo any good news, These vaccines are being "Updated" to fight new variants, Which are evolving, Just like they do with the flu vaccine, They tweak it as and when necessary. You're right about any possible side effects but that is the same will all medicines, Even the simplest headache tablet has risks, You just have to out weigh them with the good they do. Doctors don't hand them out lightly and you are always asked if you are allergic to any, In life we all have to take risks and this is just another one. If you don't want to have it that is perfectly fine you have a right to choose but when it comes to your loved ones, How are you going to feel if they choose to have it? Especially your little one because you will need to sign a consent form i'm sure of that, A difficult choice for you.

 

[Legohead]

Fair comments DB9. My partner is 50 in May and very laid back about the whole thing. She's indifferent but says she won't be having it because she feels she hasn't a need for it. That's her choice. My daughter is 11 and she won't be having it unless future variants suddenly change tack and start killing young people or unless the vaccine stops the spread from the infected person. She's 11 and at the moment has no use for a vaccine that doesn't affect kids generally speaking.

I think the demographics of people wanting / not wanting the vaccine will be interesting to see. I'd anticipate that the majority of older folks and those with underlying conditions are fervently in favour whilst the young ones less so. Which would make sense.

I just remember being given Zantac (Ranitidine) by my GP for acid reflux and last year being told the drug had been withdrawn because it's carcinogenic. No explanation was given by the GP. Just an alternative offered which i declined and sorted my reflux out naturally over time.

Ranitidine had been passed as safe by the regulators and people have been on it for years and years and yet something was found that was detrimental to health and it was immediately withdrawn from use.

This is just an example and erodes trust but i do take your point about the vaccine and how scientists have been working on little else for the past 12 months. Which would negate a lot of the time needed to safely develop a vaccine.

 

[DB9]

I did see yesterday that the NHS are reporting younger patients being admitted with Covid so that is one thing to keep an eye on. One of the vaccines being used in India is being questioned due to lack of safety trials, Lets hope their fears come to nothing. As for your 11 yr old, That of course is down to you and your good lady's decision whether your little one has it but its likely there will come a time when the letter comes home from school or from a doctor offering it.