Moaning & Groaning: Perspective.

[IndoMike]

Not sure i know where to start with this! As with all limited companies, responsibility for decisions lie with its directors, that's what they're there for. All Boards of Directors are in effect committees, ergo all business decisions are made by committee. Within that committee you will have people with responsibility for specific areas, and its those individuals who will work on those areas and present their recommendations to the board. Presumably you will trust the abilities and judgement of those individuals and the board will most likely act upon their recommendations, but the actual decision whether to will be decided upon via a vote of all directors on the board, usually with the chairman holding a casting vote. This is how companies are run and Exeter City as a limited company are no different regardless of who owns their shares. No company does its business in public, all boardroom decisions are kept private and confidential and normally all shareholders will know is what's written in the company report. Business simply isn't open democracy and expecting ours to be is unrealistic.

As for the scoreboard, its been pointed out on other threads that Tagg's comments about hundreds of thousands almost certainly referred to all the work and pitch improvements, not just the scoreboard. Unless there has been some astronomic inflation, those scoreboard don't cost anywhere near the hundreds of thousands mark. I think when it was being discussed a couple of years ago, a figure in the region of £50k was mentioned and having looked into digital display screens for the charity I used to run a few years ago, that sounds about right. So as I said, paying up a manager's contract would certainly be more than that.

So to sacking the manager. In your posts you have said you thought in a Trust owned club, the directors should act according to the wishes of its shareholders, so the question is, how do you know that's what the shareholders want? You could of course ballot the membership, but as I said before that's fraught with danger, I should know, I tried to get the trust to ballot its members over sacking Tisdale a few years ago, which was when all the potential legal problems were brought to my attention. So who says everyone agrees with you and how would you or anyone else know. So that takes us back to what grounds you are using for dismissal. If MT was dismissed and he took the club to a tribunal for unfair dismissal (which as he has more than 2 years continuous employment he could), the tribunal would unemotionally look at the facts. In this case the slashed budget, Covid, any mention of performance targets and the likelihood of them being achievable and the actual position of the club compared to other clubs and their budgets would be taken into consideration. I don't believe that by any of those measures a tribunal would find in the club's favour. Unfortunately unlike football fans, business and the law has to work in the real world, it doesn't exist in a bubble where all the normal rules don't apply.
The cost of paying up a manager's contract and its likely outcome is a business decision and considerations such as whether the club can sensibly cover that expenditure, the likelihood of a new manager bringing an improvement with the same budgetary constraints have to be taken into account. If you are going to increase the level of budget the manager has available you then have to consider whether you current manager can make performance improvements. Endlessly sacking managers in the search for el dorado doesn't seem to me to be a very successful course of action. That doesn't mean you never should or should carry on flogging an obviously dead horse as we did with the previous manager, but any decision to sack someone must be made with consideration to the constraints placed upon him.

Regarding the score board, Tagg'z words are clear

It will be similar but it will be fixed and much bigger than the one we trialled. It will go up somewhere along the away end, but it has been an aspiration for a long time,” he said.

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.

*“It’s a hugely expensive piece of kit running into the hundreds of thousands, but the fans want it and we want to provide it.”*

It will be similar but it will be fixed and much bigger than the one we trialled. It will go up somewhere along the away end, but it has been an aspiration for a long time,” he said.

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.

“It’s a hugely expensive piece of kit running into the hundreds of thousands, but the fans want it and we want to provide it.”

It's getting rather irksome that some folks are putting their own slant on Tagg's words with no justification for that at all when what he said is perfectly clear

 

[Red Bill]

The cost of the screen by Julian Tagg is a quote from DevonLive. He is quite clearly saying it will cost hundreds of thousands. Maybe he is being misquoted or it is fake news. Perhaps someone could clarify it once and for all?! Surely a tender was put out to potential bidders for supply, installation and ongoing maintenance of the screen and a water tight guarantee in case of any problems. Would a copy be available of the winning bid and a breakdown of cost. I’ve no idea of the real cost, so an update from either Board would seem to be appropriate in these uncertain times and with such a massive spend on a vanity project, I personally don’t think it’s being unreasonable to ask for us all to be kept updated going forward.
I am not leading the lynch mob for Taylor. I am indifferent to him to be honest, he’s achieved nothing so far as a Manager. Honesty, giving youth a chance, man of the people etc. are all football cliches. Success is measured by promotion or winning cups. There has to be a tipping point where you recognise it’s not working. Taylors not daft, he knows that. You need measured pressure and accountability at the top in order to achieve success and should not be constrained by what ifs or the consequences of your actions. The rewards far out way anything else, especially in football.

I dont actually disagree, in fact when I stood for the TB a few years ago, accountability was very much the platform I stood on and I absolutely believe there should be an evaluation of MT's 3 years in charge at the end of this season, what I can't agree with however is an over simplistic view and the ridiculous endless sacking of managers that has been the trend for the last 20 years. Some managers are rubbish because they're rubbish, some are rubbish because they're doing the the job with both hands tied behind their backs. Before you start sacking one you need to have an honest let ok at yourselves to see which one it is!
As for the scoreboard I can't find the link but I remember reading it as very ambiguous. There's no way a scoreboard will cost hundreds of thousands. Personally I hate big score boards, I find the a distraction.

 

[Legohead]

Regarding the score board, Tagg'z words are clear

It will be similar but it will be fixed and much bigger than the one we trialled. It will go up somewhere along the away end, but it has been an aspiration for a long time,” he said.

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.

*“It’s a hugely expensive piece of kit running into the hundreds of thousands, but the fans want it and we want to provide it.”*

It will be similar but it will be fixed and much bigger than the one we trialled. It will go up somewhere along the away end, but it has been an aspiration for a long time,” he said.

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.

“It’s a hugely expensive piece of kit running into the hundreds of thousands, but the fans want it and we want to provide it.”

It's getting rather irksome that some folks are putting their own slant on Tagg's words with no justification for that at all when what he said is perfectly clear

Firstly, how many fans want it? More than don't?

Secondly, i go to the game to watch the bloody game. I get enough electronic distractions at home thanks! How does an electronic scoreboard that tells you the score in game you are already watching and lets you know that it's 2 for 1 meals at a local pub 'enhance the supporter experience'? Pointless exercise installing a scoreboard.

 

[Benjisheps14]

Regarding the score board, Tagg'z words are clear

It will be similar but it will be fixed and much bigger than the one we trialled. It will go up somewhere along the away end, but it has been an aspiration for a long time,” he said.

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.

*“It’s a hugely expensive piece of kit running into the hundreds of thousands, but the fans want it and we want to provide it.”*

It will be similar but it will be fixed and much bigger than the one we trialled. It will go up somewhere along the away end, but it has been an aspiration for a long time,” he said.

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.

“It’s a hugely expensive piece of kit running into the hundreds of thousands, but the fans want it and we want to provide it.”

It's getting rather irksome that some folks are putting their own slant on Tagg's words with no justification for that at all when what he said is perfectly clear

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but to me I don't necessarily think Taggy is all for the new scoreboard.

 

[ExmouthMart]

I dont actually disagree, in fact when I stood for the TB a few years ago, accountability was very much the platform I stood on and I absolutely believe there should be an evaluation of MT's 3 years in charge at the end of this season, what I can't agree with however is an over simplistic view and the ridiculous endless sacking of managers that has been the trend for the last 20 years. Some managers are rubbish because they're rubbish, some are rubbish because they're doing the the job with both hands tied behind their backs. Before you start sacking one you need to have an honest let ok at yourselves to see which one it is!
As for the scoreboard I can't find the link but I remember reading it as very ambiguous. There's no way a scoreboard will cost hundreds of thousands. Personally I hate big score boards, I find the a distraction.

I don’t think we have a history of sacking Managers at Exeter. I remember it was very ugly with Cooper second time around. I believe he went on the sick in the end. We have a very laid back approach to everything but where do you draw the line?! It’s one of our qualities as a Club that the Manager gets plenty of support from everyone over a considerable time ( the last Manager and at great expense!) but there comes a time if necessary to pull the trigger. It’s not easy but theres the bigger picture of moving the Club forward.
Are you sure about the cost of the score board?! Wouldn’t it be better to find out now if it’s true, rather than further down the line, when the playing budget might be cut for instance?! Julian Tagg can quite rightly turn around and say well I told you the cost and you all wanted it, so don’t blame me now that we have no money......

 

[IndoMike]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but to me I don't necessarily think Taggy is all for the new scoreboard.

I don't know about that, Benjisheps. I just know I'd prefer we had signed a striker by Xmas at the latest if he had some spare money rather than putting it aside for a
farking luxury scoreboard : a cosmetic luxury that will quickly lose its novelty value. To be honest, i find that absolutely unbelievable.
The team should be the priority..

 

[ExmouthMart]

Firstly, how many fans want it? More than don't?

Secondly, i go to the game to watch the bloody game. I get enough electronic distractions at home thanks! How does an electronic scoreboard that tells you the score in game you are already watching and lets you know that it's 2 for 1 meals at a local pub 'enhance the supporter experience'? Pointless exercise installing a scoreboard.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I remember many years ago when at half time you either went to the loo, got a drink or a pie etc. chatted to your mates and then watched a chicken chase a turkey in a green shirt around the pitch with a blunderbuss. Now that is a true Exeter City supporter experience.......

 

[LOG]

Personally, I think the new scoreboard is the result of forward thinking rather than focusing on personal opinions which is what’s going on here.

The “I don’t want a bloody scoreboard” opinions are perfectly valid but then we’re all long standing, and often suffering, fans and, dare I say, generally of a certain age. Like it or not, the younger generation of fans who already come to matches, those who could be tempted to and the future generations who aren’t yet a twinkle in the milkman’s eye will expect things like this. It's 2021, believe it or not, and expectations change.

Plus, in time and with the right commercial focus, it will pay for itself and more anyway.

 

[Legohead]

Personally, I think the new scoreboard is the result of forward thinking rather than focusing on personal opinions which is what’s going on here.

The “I don’t want a bloody scoreboard” opinions are perfectly valid but then we’re all long standing, and often suffering, fans and, dare I say, generally of a certain age. Like it or not, the younger generation of fans who already come to matches, those who could be tempted to and the future generations who aren’t yet a twinkle in the milkman’s eye will expect things like this. It's 2021, believe it or not, and expectations change.

Plus, in time and with the right commercial focus, it will pay for itself and more anyway.

I take your points LOG but most young uns now at half time are glued to their phones so won't even be looking at the scoreboard and what some deal some mechanic in Exmouth is offering.

 

[Alistair20000]

Personally, I think the new scoreboard is the result of forward thinking rather than focusing on personal opinions which is what’s going on here.

The “I don’t want a bloody scoreboard” opinions are perfectly valid but then we’re all long standing, and often suffering, fans and, dare I say, generally of a certain age. Like it or not, the younger generation of fans who already come to matches, those who could be tempted to and the future generations who aren’t yet a twinkle in the milkman’s eye will expect things like this. It's 2021, believe it or not, and expectations change.

Plus, in time and with the right commercial focus, it will pay for itself and more anyway.

I am finding this a bit difficult to reconcile with Mr Tagg's words:

“It will help with advertising and I am sure our sponsors will enjoy it and it is very difficult to make pay, but we will of course try to do that. It’s really about the supporter experience and improving that.