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General Election - 8thJune

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IndoMike

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So will Brexit be rare, medium or well done? Can Teresa please all of the people all of the time, or will she be resigning this week? Are the daggers being sharpened? Should be an interesting week in the world of UK politics.
 

IndoMike

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If Lad is to be believed then apparently 17.4 million voted for a hard brexit.
Think you mean 1.74 million voted for hard Brexit. The rest didn't really know what they were voting for..
 

Terryhall

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If Lad is to be believed then apparently 17.4 million voted for a hard brexit.
Considering a Soft Brexit is just Remain repackaged then yes, I'd concur with Lad.
17.4m voted to leave the EU. Within that group, there will be some who wanted to leave without a deal on WTO terms (e.g. Lad), and some who wanted a full deal with the EU to make the best of the situation (e.g. May and others in official positions to have an impact on negotiations).

I remain thankful that this is the case.
 

Jason H

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It doesn't help that the "Remoaners" moved the goalposts about what constituted a "Hard" and "Soft" Brexit. As Jinxy said above, initially a "Soft" Brexit was taken to mean not Brexit at all i.e. membership of the SM and CU, with all that entails (e.g. freedom of movement), while "Hard" was to leave both. "Hard", when May and co said we'd be leaving the SM and CU, was then moved to mean "crashing out with no deal".

The (EU-funded) Remoaners have played a very clever boxing game, utilising the emotive term "People's Vote", moving the goalposts of what they claim is a "Hard" Brexit in order to play Divide & Rule amongst the Brexiteers and all the while pretending they respect the 2016 result while clearly doing no such thing.
 

Terryhall

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I think both sides have played the politics well to their own base. I struggle to see myself in your description there (you may well see it differently), I credit everyone with enough intelligence to have known what they were voting for, I just recognise that it is fundamentally unlikely that all 17.4m who voted Leave did so in the hope of there being "no deal" (which remains the line being peddled by Lad on here).

Whether that is described by Leavers, Remainers, the media, or the political classes as "hard" "soft" or otherwise is pretty much irrelevant in my mind, what is relevant is that the end result causes the minimum damage to the UK (I still don't see this as anything other than looking for the "least bad outcome", but recognise that this is just my opinion and not shared by all.)
 

Jason H

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It may be irrelevant in your mind, but the choice of language is very emotive. As you say, not everyone who voted to leave wanted to leave with no deal* (something the polls continually suggest), so the choice of words is effective in raising internal squabbles amongst Brexiteers.

I agree that what matters is we get the best possible deal for the UK (although I disagree any deal is the "least bad").



*Much as there are different nuances to "Remain" too - not everyone who voted to remain will have done so on the basis of a USE (both Macron and Merkel have now called for an EU army, just another salami tactic step along the line towards a USE).
 

Jason H

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I note that while the UK economy grew at a decent pace in Q3 (yes, yes, only in July!) hashtag despitebrexit, the German economy contracted.
 

Terryhall

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I agree it's emotive phrasing, but I would argue that the Remain camp (which I agree has "remained" active post-referendum) is not the only side of the debate to have targeted voters / the public with emotionally charged campaigning. Both sides have done so (and arguably, the Leave campaign did a better job, given that they won?)

Completely agree that there are shades of grey on both sides in terms of the detail of what "Leave" and "Remain" would look like in the final outcome (albeit that, for good order and to avoid any suggestion I am saying otherwise, taking a satellite view, it was clear what was on the ballot and the referendum result itself was also clear.)
 

Avening Posse

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Seems pretty clear to me (unless i am missing something significant) that the logical route is always the middle ground when the outcome is totally unclear, and as things pan out over time we can move further in one direction or the other. The prime minister and her people seem to have done a pretty good job of that. The EU equally have steered in that direction
 

Mr Jinx

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So let me get this right - May is propsoing we stay in the Customs Union whilst doing away with free movement? Even it this was somehow to get through Parliament, does she realise the EU would never accept it? Were they to accept it, lots of other countries would want to do the same. We're either in or out, not having the best of both worlds. Or is it me missing something?
 
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