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should we have a banner at St James Park?

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tavyred

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you clearly do not numb nuts for if you did you would not have posted this, you only know the history the victors us told you, now go google British Imperialsm atrocitities richard head
Admirable leftist self-flagellation there GIE!��
Why are you insisting that I nothing about or am denying our colonial history?....neither is the case.
It's a bit like me accusing you of holocaust denial because you fail to recognise Germany's post war angst.
 

BigBanker

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Enough. I travel abroad 2-3 times a year. And no, not to the same places.
Well in that case you should be quite aware that in this country far from being as badly off as the Daily M**l makes us out to be, we are in fact afforded (by chance of birth) an extremely comfortable existence in comparison to huge swathes of the world's population.

You may not feel that it's 'our' responsibility to help these refugees. I, 4-1, couldn't give a toss who's responsibility it is or isn't. I would just like to help them.

There by the grace of God etc...
 

Avening Posse

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D
As GiE has said, this should not be a political issue, it is a humanitarian one. There are calls from all sides of the political spectrum for this government to open its eyes and do more to help.

It is welcome news that their position seems to be shifting and I understand the reasons why the focus should be on refugees bordering Syria - that is a laudable strategy, but meanwhile there is a humanitarian imperative to also help refugees already in Europe.
Strategy wise, refugees in camps on the borders of Syria I think is the best way forward. I suspect being in a camp there, as opposed to a railway station somewhere in Europe, is a much harsher and life threatening plight. I totally agree for humanitarian reasons people who are further afield than the Syrian border also need help, but cannot help but feel the Euro politico's for all their bluster this week, will quietly start to "discourage" uncontrolled net migration into Europe though, so will probably publicly move towards giving most assistance to the border camp refugees. Not saying it's right, but think that's where this is heading
 

ECFC traveller

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Well in that case you should be quite aware that in this country far from being as badly off as the Daily M**l makes us out to be, we are in fact afforded (by chance of birth) an extremely comfortable existence in comparison to huge swathes of the world's population.

You may not feel that it's 'our' responsibility to help these refugees. I, 4-1, couldn't give a toss who's responsibility it is or isn't. I would just like to help them.

There by the grace of God etc...
Charity starts at home, and when I see war veterans on the streets, I see our elderly suffering and not affording to heat their own homes, I see thousands dying a year from being too cold, I see thousands being refused treatment on the NHS. I then realise we need to sort our own country out first. Sure, it's not good to be in the situation of these people - Although, as my link above shows (The video)....Most are economical migrants, not refugees. Do you remember Tyranny? Well, we've had 2 wars and a civil war for our country. None of our people ran. We stayed and fought for what's right. Why are all these men running, leaving their children and wives behind? If we close the doors to these migrants, rather than leaving the doors open and to accept them in open arms this will continue. The journey across the sea, costs around £10,000/equal of. This means only the wealthiest, richest and most intelligent can come. Leaving the state of the country without skills, and no means to prosper on it's own. Sometimes, doing what seems cruel, actually helps those the most. This is proven through foreign aid and charts are very easily accessible of how countries have succeeded, and how countries haven't. Those who aren't given aid, have come a lot further. See Dan Hannan's speech in the European Parliament for example with Uganda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPkqFrlJwYs
 

Grecian2K

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I find it bizarrely ironic that our government spend £££££s of OUR tax money trying to drag back wannabe terrorists (and their misguided slags) who hate us and don'twish to be British back from their Middle East adventure yet still spend £££££££££££s more trying to deny those in genuine threat and who actually want to be in our country.

Let the former leave (NEVER RETURN) while if the latter are truly in need - and willing to assimilate and contribute - welcome them with prudently open arms [within reason]
 

ECFC traveller

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I find it bizarrely ironic that our government spend £££££s of OUR tax money trying to drag back wannabe terrorists (and their misguided slags) who hate us and don'twish to be British back from their Middle East adventure yet still spend £££££££££££s more trying to deny those in genuine threat and who actually want to be in our country.

Let the former leave (NEVER RETURN) while if the latter are truly in need - and willing to assimilate and contribute - welcome them with prudently open arms [within reason]
How can you define which is genuine? ISIS and other terror groups have already said they're using this crisis to smuggle Jihads in Europe / UK
 

Grecian2K

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How can you define which is genuine? ISIS and other terror groups have already said they're using this crisis to smuggle Jihads in Europe / UK
Quite easy to control and monitor on arrival, I'd say.

Careful screening and monitoring right from arrival with the issue of a PROVISIONAL immigration visa that is subject to regular review and renewal would surely allow detection of those with nefarious motive from those desperate to assimilate ad, MOST IMPORTANTLY, work. Under careful supervision any of the former could surely be swiftly detected and swiftly returned to their own sewers.

And, let's face it, so far most of the "Jihadi Johns & Janet's" appear to have been at very least second or more generation citizens who, I suspect, have mostly had their juices stimulated by the Muslim equivalent of The Beano.
 

ECFC traveller

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Quite easy to control and monitor on arrival, I'd say.

Careful screening and monitoring right from arrival with the issue of a PROVISIONAL immigration visa that is subject to regular review and renewal would surely allow detection of those with nefarious motive from those desperate to assimilate ad, MOST IMPORTANTLY, work. Under careful supervision any of the former could surely be swiftly detected and swiftly returned to their own sewers.

And, let's face it, so far most of the "Jihadi Johns & Janet's" appear to have been at very least second or more generation citizens who, I suspect, have mostly had their juices stimulated by the Muslim equivalent of The Beano.
I wouldn't be as confident as you..

"Islamic State, also referred to as IS and ISIS, is believed to be actively smuggling deadly gunmen across the sparsely-guarded 565-mile Turkish border and on to richer European nations, he revealed.

There are now more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen "ready" across the European Union, he claimed.

The operative said the undercover infiltration was the beginning of a larger plot to carry out revenge attacks in the West in retaliation for the US-led coalition airstrikes."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees

Why can't Saudi Arabia, UAE and other countries take them in? Less cultural differences and they're more than rich enough to accommodate for them. Haven't we given enough to help these people? More than as I stated previously - Germany, France, Italy, Austria, The Netherlands and Poland..COMBINED.
 
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Grecian2K

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Ah, the Daily Excess.....must be firkin true then.

Rather surprised that the Daily Wail hasn't jumped on the band wagon as well. :S
 

BigBanker

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Charity starts at home, and when I see war veterans on the streets, I see our elderly suffering and not affording to heat their own homes, I see thousands dying a year from being too cold, I see thousands being refused treatment on the NHS. I then realise we need to sort our own country out first. Sure, it's not good to be in the situation of these people - Although, as my link above shows (The video)....Most are economical migrants, not refugees. Do you remember Tyranny? Well, we've had 2 wars and a civil war for our country. None of our people ran. We stayed and fought for what's right. Why are all these men running, leaving their children and wives behind? If we close the doors to these migrants, rather than leaving the doors open and to accept them in open arms this will continue. The journey across the sea, costs around £10,000/equal of. This means only the wealthiest, richest and most intelligent can come. Leaving the state of the country without skills, and no means to prosper on it's own. Sometimes, doing what seems cruel, actually helps those the most. This is proven through foreign aid and charts are very easily accessible of how countries have succeeded, and how countries haven't. Those who aren't given aid, have come a lot further. See Dan Hannan's speech in the European Parliament for example with Uganda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPkqFrlJwYs
Clearly our views are too far apart to ever even come close to some sort of agreement on any of this.

But...

'Thousands being refused treatment on the NHS' - YOU ARE LUCKY to have been born into a country where a state funded health system even exists.

'Elderly suffering and not affording to heat their own homes' - More the fault of our City bankers than the Syrian refugees fleeing a war zone, but I agree, very sad. The fact remains though that the vast, vast majority of our elderly are better off than most of the elderly people around the world...in fact they will have comfortably outlived the life expectancy of many parts of the world.

'War veterans on the streets' - There may be some, but you, Sir, are reading far too much of the Daily Mail and seem to have lost all sense of perspective. We're hardly tripping over them. I'm not saying that our country is perfect, but if you can't recognise that we are IN GENERAL in a position of huge privilege then you're more blinkered than even I give you credit for.

With regard to people running from a civil war, why should they not have the right to flee a war that they probably didn't even want? I'm sure you'd be right on the front line if we had a civil war here because you're clearly well'ard.....let's hope so because if you did ever want to flee persecution or a horrible war in this country you might well find that nobody felt that it was their 'responsibility' to help you...
 
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