What has always surprised me Mike is that a specific percentage wasnt written in as a point that had to be reached before such massive change could happen. As it stood, we could have been in this trouble with an extremely tiny majority enforcing the change.
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Politics Today
- Thread starter Hants_red
- Start date
Screw johnson up some more id imagine. God bless em.
IndoMike
Very well known Exeweb poster
The UK representative was in absentia because he had scuttled off due to protests from a small group of protesters, rumoured to be Brits. It was a joint press cinference
Boris and Farage always hide when the pressure is on. Meanwhile Cummins is not accountable to anyone
I don't think the Luxembourg bloke's comments will have any negative impact at all. He said that BREXIT was a nightmare (true), that Johnson had no new proposals (true -according to all EU representatives), that it was up to Britain to find solutions (true) and implied that Johnson was trying to blame the EU (true).
We've got so used to Johnson's bs that we can't recognize the truth anymore.
IndoMike
Very well known Exeweb poster
Yes, Geoff. One single vote could have altered our destiny. First past the post is the status quo, but it leaves an awful lot of people dissatisfied.
IndoMike
Very well known Exeweb poster
Unfortunately (
) it's not up to Johnson to choose when to hold an election. He is now a junior partner, an unelected PM. The opposition is in control and will propose a date for an election when it sees fit. So sit down Boris and try to be a good boy.
Alistair20000
Very well known Exeweb poster
At least a new Parliament will be elected with some different members and with a fresh start.Nothing will be resolved with this parliament whichever side of the fence you sit on. That's why a general election will happen in November. The only problem will be, what if there is another hung parliament or minority government, which is entirely possible or even probable. The extremes of all parties are so entrenched and even though party loyalty is showing signs of fracturing, I cannot see enough MP's compromising any time. The only party that has a realistic chance of a majority is the Conservatives but not if they don't marginalise the Brexit Party. I just don't think Boris will bring himself to do a deal with Farage. It will alienate too many one nation Tory MP's (they still outnumber the ERG).
And to think we have barely started Brexit really.
The squatters who have changed sides will either be legitimised by re-election or turfed out.
If the Parliament is hung then the politicians will have to make the best of the cards that the electorate deals them.
Alistair20000
Very well known Exeweb poster
See Post 4935
Every Parliament is prorogued, usually each year and this one has gone on for longer than most to achieve the square root of bugger all apart from kicking the Brexit can down the road.
I think you get very hot and bothered over things that have no practical importance. What would this Zombie Parliament have achieved in those extra few days ? It is resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift and united only in being divided. It needs putting out of its misery.
Had this prorogation been a real threat to our democracy I would be up in arms but it isn't. Too many people are getting ridiculously over excited and for once I think John Bercow is right: Calm down everyone. Take a tablet or something.
IndoMike
Very well known Exeweb poster
It's the principle of the thing, Ali. One of the reasons we have survived for such a long time is that we have a parliamentary democracy. If we start abusing that, even if it is only for four days, then parliament and democracy are weakened. You know : "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile".Like the Orient players when they saw the ref was weak.
I see no "uncalm" here : just disagreement.
However, you do seem extremely frustrated with parliament, so.......calm down
Democracy by its nature is full of talk, talk, talk to eventually arrive at a solution. Dictators cut out all the crap and get straight to the point, but its their point alone.
Which do you prefer?
Alistair20000
Very well known Exeweb poster
Principle(s) Indo. I do shudder when people say "it's the principle." How many times have I seen families fall apart sometimes never to speak to each other again or litigation gets pursued at huge cost to the benefit of nobody but M'Learned Friends on matters of "principle" ? I like to consider what is practical as a solution. Does the damn thing work ? Sometimes a principle is so important it has to be fought for, often at huge cost; such as stamping out Hitler and all his evil works. Other examples available of course. Too often though, there is the shout of "principle" when it does not amount to a can of beans in practical terms.
I am more concerned at present about the politicians denying us a general election when it is so obviously needed than losing a few days of pointless waffle, procedural posturing and plotting from this clapped out Parliament. Yes Boris might have pulled some tricks with the prorogation but so have the MP's throughout this wretched Brexit process. The latest wheeze of keeping him in office to "stew in his own juices" might seem a good laugh to the opposition MP's but it is hardly making for good government is it ?
Democracy is a bloody awful system of course but all the other models that have been tried have been shown to be far worse.
IndoMike
Very well known Exeweb poster
If we don't have principles we are lost. Yes, one man's principle is another man's poison. Yes, BREXIT is dragging on and on.
Yes, there must be compromise.
To have principles is a positive thing, but we don't have an arbiter about which principle is the correct one. For a politician the basic principle should be not to lie and to serve the people, not oneself.
The alternative to all this huffing and puffing is civil war : much better fought out in Parliament than in the streets.
BREXIT has touched the nerve and the country is so divided. The problem is an option was offered to the people which is inherently almost impossible to implement.
Prior to any referendum Cameron et al should have conducted an intense study to ensure that BREXIT could be implemented with or without a deal, but Cameron was criminally negligent. The Ireland question had no solution but BREXIT was offered despite that. All the fuss now is simply a consequence of that negligence.
Regarding an election : there will be one, so what's the problem? But there's no guarantee that an election will resolve much
Yes, there must be compromise.
To have principles is a positive thing, but we don't have an arbiter about which principle is the correct one. For a politician the basic principle should be not to lie and to serve the people, not oneself.
The alternative to all this huffing and puffing is civil war : much better fought out in Parliament than in the streets.
BREXIT has touched the nerve and the country is so divided. The problem is an option was offered to the people which is inherently almost impossible to implement.
Prior to any referendum Cameron et al should have conducted an intense study to ensure that BREXIT could be implemented with or without a deal, but Cameron was criminally negligent. The Ireland question had no solution but BREXIT was offered despite that. All the fuss now is simply a consequence of that negligence.
Regarding an election : there will be one, so what's the problem? But there's no guarantee that an election will resolve much