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IndoMike

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She didn't care that much about not being liked. Subtle difference.
£400m of our money given to those indolent sods west of the Tamar? Where do Brussels get the money?


Apologies about the paywall but you should get the gist of it Mike.
I don't have an accountant's brain or the energy to work out the economic advantages and disadvantages of our EU membership, Stuffy. All I can do is look at the overall picture. As far as I can see we were doing fine before all this BREXIT : you don't need to change your chair if it's not broken. Most experts now say that our economy will shrink for at least a couple of years. That means more families will have to struggle (but not the Johnson or Mogg families), more people will be out on the streets, more food banks will be set up in schools).
If after a couple of years things pick up, I guess the Brexiters can say it was worth it.
Personally I think the whole BREXIT mess
was based on some romantic idea that Britain could rule the waves again combined with the Brits' dislike of foreigners : no other country has so many derogatory names for foreign nationals (frogs, krauts, wogs, dagos etc).One of the worst things is that we feel we have nothing to learn from others : only stupid countries think that.
The 2nd World War is over, Stuffy. Finished 70 years ago . Europe learned that a union would help to prevent a repetition.
 

DB9

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Thing is the article is from the Telegraph so does come from an certain angle, I can't see the whole article, Does it say how much is rebated? Which we always get and that rebate was hard fought over, Also does it say how much is given to us in projects across the UK? Headlines like extra 50k Police Officers or nurses, How many would we get if we cancel HS2? Those are numbers journalists of newspapers know will grab your attention
 

IndoMike

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Regarding the Yellowhammer documents, the Govt's refusal to release them hardly reassures the public that everything will be fine the days, weeks and months after BREXIT day. The obvious questions is : "What do they want to hide?"
 

DB9

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Regarding the Yellowhammer documents, the Govt's refusal to release them hardly reassures the public that everything will be fine the days, weeks and months after BREXIT day. The obvious questions is : "What do they want to hide?"
They've released some Mike of possible worst case scenarios, Not the best thing if it goes tits up
 

IndoMike

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Look at the BBC news website, Has a bullet point list of possible problems of a no deal
Yes, it includes some but not all of the possible worst scenarios.
Let's hope things don't get so bad and the British spirit will pull through. What does concern me is not only the scenarios but if this Tory Govt is competent enough or caring enough to deal with them.
I can see Rees - Smug pulling up the drawbridge around his castle right now....or even moving abroad?
 

DB9

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Yes, it includes some but not all of the possible worst scenarios.
Let's hope things don't get so bad and the British spirit will pull through. What does concern me is not only the scenarios but if this Tory Govt is competent enough or caring enough to deal with them.
I can see Rees - Smug pulling up the drawbridge around his castle right now....or even moving abroad?
I don't think they even care, We will get people saying we're going to get a deal and we've done loads to prevent these things happening, That I hope is true But they think it's more important to deliver Brexit and risk these things happening which to me is crazy
 

IndoMike

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I don't think they even care, We will get people saying we're going to get a deal and we've done loads to prevent these things happening, That I hope is true But they think it's more important to deliver Brexit and risk these things happening which to me is crazy
I think even Johnson must be feeling nervous about this. If NO DEAL goes through and the worst scenarios become reality, Johnson and his cohorts will have a lot to answer for.
The problem about planning in advance, there have been so many ministerial changes under the Tory Govt that one doubts that the planning has run smoothly. And disaster planning is not so simple, either. We all know that planning covers the theory, but unexpected events can quickly make our plans redundant.
Yeah, and they don't care much either : only enough to save their own bacon.
 

tavyred

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Encouraging to see that there has been some disquiet at the judgment from earlier today. I’m not sure a court second guessing a politicians motivations and not recognising that part of the game of politics is adversarial in nature should be part of its remit. I fully expect the Supreme Court to rule in the governments favour next week.
 

IndoMike

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Encouraging to see that there has been some disquiet at the judgment from earlier today. I’m not sure a court second guessing a politicians motivations and not recognising that part of the game of politics is adversarial in nature should be part of its remit. I fully expect the Supreme Court to rule in the governments favour next week.
Yes, I agree with your conclusion. I'm sure that the opposition expect this too based on previous judgements. However, I expect the Queen not to be amused. I imagine Royalists will also be dismayed that Johnson was not totally honest with her.
Hopefully for you NO DEAL will go through
 

IndoMike

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You wouldn't think that a government would demand to leave the EU knowing the potential risks to its people as highlighted in Yellowhammer. A country shooting itself in the foot. For what? When everything was already fine and we were no.2 in the EU economically.
And after NO DEAL, years and years of negotiations and uncertainty. It is absolute madness. Madness.
 

IndoMike

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Apart from years of austerity, increase in violent crime, increase in the number of homeless, deterioration in the condition of infrastructure, the evaporation of the High St, the selling off of thousands of assets, billions of pounds wasted, and the potential for rioting, increased food prices, shortages of food and medicine, chaos at the ports, breakdown of our national security,
national disunity and lack of respect for the law, what have the Tories ever done for us?
 

DB9

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Encouraging to see that there has been some disquiet at the judgment from earlier today. I’m not sure a court second guessing a politicians motivations and not recognising that part of the game of politics is adversarial in nature should be part of its remit. I fully expect the Supreme Court to rule in the governments favour next week.
Yep, All you have to do is put the word "Biased" out there and people jump on it. I'm not a constitutional expert or have any experience in all things Judges do but they do and until the Supreme Court says otherwise on Tuesday the judgement should stand without people coming up with conspiracy theories or accusations of biased for their own political views.
 

tavyred

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You wouldn't think that a government would demand to leave the EU knowing the potential risks to its people as highlighted in Yellowhammer. A country shooting itself in the foot. For what? When everything was already fine and we were no.2 in the EU economically.
And after NO DEAL, years and years of negotiations and uncertainty. It is absolute madness. Madness.
I listened to a radio debate last night where one of the contributors quite rightly IMO made the point that remainers are trying to apply an economic argument to a referendum decision that was based around values.
 

DB9

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Telegraph saying that Johnson is about to offer an olive branch to the 21 Tories who lost the whip last week giving them chance to appeal. Think this was a bit of a stupid thing to do in the first place and is probably pressure from senior Tories that he may have went too far
 

IndoMike

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I listened to a radio debate last night where one of the contributors quite rightly IMO made the point that remainers are trying to apply an economic argument to a referendum decision that was based around values.
[/QUOTE

Does he think that money is not important to the people? As Clinton (or somebody) said: "It's the economy, stupid".
But when it's becoming clear there will be a big economic impact the Leavers suddenly say it's not relevant..😅
But it's not just about the economy : many have raised other issues, too.
Anyway : what are these "values"?
 

Mr Jinx

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Apart from years of austerity, increase in violent crime, increase in the number of homeless, deterioration in the condition of infrastructure, the evaporation of the High St, the selling off of thousands of assets, billions of pounds wasted, and the potential for rioting, increased food prices, shortages of food and medicine, chaos at the ports, breakdown of our national security, national disunity and lack of respect for the law, what have the Tories ever done for us?
Record employment, wage growth up, inflation steady at the mythical 2%, house prices steady if not falling a little, the list goes on. Everything is rosy from where I'm looking. Don't believe the hype mate. You've obviously been reading too much Guardian from afar.
 
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