LGBT Supporters Group

angelic upstart

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Asking simply because I don't know the answer, but was Fashanu's suicide a result of him outing himself as a gay footballer? If not, to say it's 'menacing' might be a little wide of the mark.
The fact no one has felt comfortable enough to say they're gay in football in the last 27 years is menacing enough don't you think?
 

Spoonz Red E

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As it's fear that prevents footballers coming out I think menacing is an apt word.
But you are right in saying it is sad too.
 

Antony Moxey

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The fact no one has felt comfortable enough to say they're gay in football in the last 27 years is menacing enough don't you think?
I think Geoff says it better in that it's sad more than anything else. The trouble is, unless a fairly big number all come out within a very short space of time the one or two that are brave enough to take that step will receive absolute dog's abuse.

In general society is an awful lot more tolerant of most groups and minorities these days, however that's not reflected in football. I guess that's the tribal nature of the sport that's not evident in any other. I'm pretty sure a gay tennis player, swimmer, athlete, cricketer, rugby player or diver would be much better received and accepted for who they were rather than what they were than a footballer.

Which is sad.
 

IndoMike

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I agree that the tone of the response to his post was a touch aggressive, but the fact is that someone posted a thread about LGBT and he waded in with a comment that there wasn't any discrimination that he could imagine. I haven't commented on this subject because I don't go to SJP enough to know if this is still a problem - unlike Mike, I can't imagine that it ISN'T still a problem but I'm really not qualified to say. Now for years people have been telling people who complain about discrimination to not "make a problem of it" and if you do then you're the problem, so I can understand the heated reaction from mfcrocker actually. For Mike then to go all sensitive and become the victim is something he should be above, take it and move on, I'm not going to say "grow a pair" like people used to regularly say on here and is a phrase I hate but once the dust settles on this particular skirmish on exeweb you will have forgotten all about it while homophobic abuse will still be there in society, so my sympathies are limited.
The reason I made my first post was that the thread was started and nobody else responded. A question was asked and I gave what I honestly thought was a plausible reason why the club had not started the LGBT supporters club. I honestly believed that the days of anti-LGBT were over, and in fact we have laws to prevent it. I guess I was wrong and that there will always be some neanderthals who are anti- immigrants, anti- blacks, anti LBGT and so on.I'm sorry if I didn't express my opinion sufficiently well or if I upset anyone : it really wasn't my intention. But the main thing is that you go ahead with the LBGT supporters club. Good luck with it. And UTC.
 

Terryhall

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We have a disabled one. Do you think there is something wrong with that?
This is an excellent point that seems to have been missed in all the rest.

I think that if you aren't part of a particular group, it's pretty much impossible to say whether or not members of that group should (or should not) feel discriminated - firstly because, by defintion, if you aren't part of that group then you just don't know; and secondly, because it's more or less impossible to present that view in a way that doesn't at least carry the risk of coming across as bigoted - particularly when you are commenting online, without context, without body language, etc.

With any kind of discrimination, the first step anyone should take is to look at their own opinion on the matter and try to understand why you feel that way yourself. I was having this discussion with a friend the other day (not related to LGBT) and when you think of it in those terms, it's not always comfortable to critically analyse why you think a certain way, particularly if that means you suddenly find yourself with the conclusion that you have some unconscious prejudice/s.

In this case, and taking Denzel's point as the basis, would anyone argue against the Disabled supporters group? Or, as others posted, a Supporters Group based on geography? And if the answer to that is no - then ask yourself why your reaction is different for an LGBT Supporters group?
 

malcolms

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This is an excellent point that seems to have been missed in all the rest.

I think that if you aren't part of a particular group, it's pretty much impossible to say whether or not members of that group should (or should not) feel discriminated - firstly because, by defintion, if you aren't part of that group then you just don't know; and secondly, because it's more or less impossible to present that view in a way that doesn't at least carry the risk of coming across as bigoted - particularly when you are commenting online, without context, without body language, etc.

With any kind of discrimination, the first step anyone should take is to look at their own opinion on the matter and try to understand why you feel that way yourself. I was having this discussion with a friend the other day (not related to LGBT) and when you think of it in those terms, it's not always comfortable to critically analyse why you think a certain way, particularly if that means you suddenly find yourself with the conclusion that you have some unconscious prejudice/s.

In this case, and taking Denzel's point as the basis, would anyone argue against the Disabled supporters group? Or, as others posted, a Supporters Group based on geography? And if the answer to that is no - then ask yourself why your reaction is different for an LGBT Supporters group?
Surely, the obvious question is where does this desire to create ever smaller and more specialised groups of supporters go? Perhaps, we should have a left handed group from Tiverton or a supporters group from Barnstable who support Brexit. They may or may not suffer prejudice in their daily life but could well feel underrepresented.

I'm genuinely not trying to undermine the desire to start a group which may have specific benefit to members, in particular and the club in general, but to continue to split up into special interest groups can't by definition, bring us together, or can it?
 

Terryhall

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Surely, the obvious question is where does this desire to create ever smaller and more specialised groups of supporters go? Perhaps, we should have a left handed group from Tiverton or a supporters group from Barnstable who support Brexit. They may or may not suffer prejudice in their daily life but could well feel underrepresented.

I'm genuinely not trying to undermine the desire to start a group which may have specific benefit to members, in particular and the club in general, but to continue to split up into special interest groups can't by definition, bring us together, or can it?
What it can do is help those in that group to feel included and welcomed. I am neither left handed nor from Tiverton, but if there was a particular reason that left-handed Tivertonites might feel unwelcome at SJP, then the left handed Tiverton supporters group might be something the club could pro-actively do to encourage their attendance and inclusion at the club.

Would you make this same argument about the Disabled Supporters Group? Or the Exiles in London? If not - ask yourself this - why not? What do you perceive to be the difference here?
 

malcolms

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What it can do is help those in that group to feel included and welcomed. I am neither left handed nor from Tiverton, but if there was a particular reason that left-handed Tivertonites might feel unwelcome at SJP, then the left handed Tiverton supporters group might be something the club could pro-actively do to encourage their attendance and inclusion at the club.

Would you make this same argument about the Disabled Supporters Group? Or the Exiles in London? If not - ask yourself this - why not? What do you perceive to be the difference here?
I wasn't making an argument for or against, I was asking whether breaking up into sections to achieve a unified whole wasn't oxymoronic in reality.
 
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