General Election - 8thJune

[arthur]

I doubt it - it's a case of whether it's he or the party that voters vote for. Until he became a bit of a lunatic EU-wise, he was no doubt a very popular figure within the party.

His constituency was 51-49 in favour of Remain, so he would need a substantial personal vote to carry the constituency as an independent. I don't think he has this (at least not to the extent that he'd win without party backing). He has increased his vote share in every election but it's still below the peak achieved by his predecessor.

"Lunatic" - employing rational, evidence based arguements to illustrate the structural incoherence in the government's approach

 

[IndoMike]

I doubt it - it's a case of whether it's he or the party that voters vote for. Until he became a bit of a lunatic EU-wise, he was no doubt a very popular figure within the party.

His constituency was 51-49 in favour of Remain, so he would need a substantial personal vote to carry the constituency as an independent. I don't think he has this (at least not to the extent that he'd win without party backing). He has increased his vote share in every election but it's still below the peak achieved by his predecessor.

So young voters are disrespected by you and in fact all Remainers are disrespected by you and classified as "lunatics". You really are scraping the insult barrel in a vain attempt to cover up the failings of your party. To be honest, your comments and inability to debate the issues are an embarrassment and have the reverse effect of your aim - which is to support the Conservative Party and try to persuade others to do the same. You're becoming a kind of Donald Trump of the Exeweb branch of the Tory Party.

 

[Jason H]

So young voters are disrespected by you and in fact all Remainers are disrespected by you and classified as "lunatics". You really are scraping the insult barrel in a vain attempt to cover up the failings of your party. To be honest, your comments and inability to debate the issues are an embarrassment and have the reverse effect of your aim - which is to support the Conservative Party and try to persuade others to do the same. You're becoming a kind of Donald Trump of the Exeweb branch of the Tory Party.

Ah, I miss these old off-piste moments as my time on here is (currently) curtailed somewhat.

I don't disrespect young voters, nor do I disrespect (most) Remainers (I'm neither Brexiteer nor Remainer). You are, not for the first time (and probably not the last) reading something, forming your own narrative, and attacking on that basis without stopping to consider whether what you're saying is actually a fair reflection.

 

[IndoMike]

Ah, I miss these old off-piste moments as my time on here is (currently) curtailed somewhat.

I don't disrespect young voters, nor do I disrespect (most) Remainers (I'm neither Brexiteer nor Remainer). You are, not for the first time (and probably not the last) reading something, forming your own narrative, and attacking on that basis without stopping to consider whether what you're saying is actually a fair reflection.

No, I'm not at all. I'm referring exactly to what you have said in recent posts. Once again your response is without substance and avoiding the points I made.

 

[IndoMike]

So Leadsom is insisting that changes must be made to the Withdrawal Agreement. Excuse me, you're not really in a position to insist on anything, ma'am.

 

[arthur]

Peston's latest prediction

The EU can't risk a long extension, with every chance of May's successor being constantly disruptive. So a shortie it will be

During that time, anything could happen. A new Tory leader plus a general election is my guess - doubtless Jason will dismiss this as "fanciful"B-)

 

[Jason H]

No, I'm not at all. I'm referring exactly to what you have said in recent posts. Once again your response is without substance and avoiding the points I made.

You extrapolated my saying Grieve "became a bit of a lunatic EU-wise" to saying "...and in fact all Remainers are disrespected by you and classified as 'lunatics'..."

This is patently absurd extrapolation and clearly nothing that I have said or even implied. And as I say, not the first (nor probably the last) time you have used a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

As for young voters, I made what I believe to be a valid observation that the Glorious Leader promising to wipe out student debt might have bought some of their votes - the evidence is there in places like Canterbury, a student-heavy place where, for the first time, Labour won the seat. This is not to "disrespect" young voters at all, let alone prompt one of your semi-regular rants. EDIT: If I were a 21 year old first time voter with the prospect of £30k+ debt and a leader said "I'll deal with it (student debt)", heck I'd be tempted.

But hey, if you wish to shut down opposition views by drifting into hyperbole, then you may find an echo chamber more soothing.

 

[IndoMike]

"It is well known that Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, is strongly opposed to the UK remaining in a customs union with the EU. As a cabinet minister his entire life revolves around negotiating trade deals, and if the UK were to remain in the customs union, he would be largely redundant".

As a cabinet minister his entire life revolves around negotiating trade deals,,, a task which he has failed miserably. You do agree he has failed miserably, Jason, don't you? He promised more than 40 deals by March 31st and has negotiated just 6 deals. That's total failure, isn't it? Factually a failure, right?

 

[arthur]

avoiding the points I made.

He avoided the point I made. There are a variety of insults you could throw at Grieve, but "lunatic" is a strange choice

 

[Jason H]

He avoided the point I made. There are a variety of insults you could throw at Grieve, but "lunatic" is a strange choice

Blimey, the vultures are circling here.

I made the point somewhat flippantly, but he sensed an opportunity to attempt to halt the Brexit process and, aided and abetted by the Speaker's innate bias in choosing when to apply precedent (i.e. when it suits him to thwart the process), has run with it. In direct contravention of the very manifesto he campaigned on, for starters.

Ken Clarke, arch-Europhile that he is, has at least displayed some pragmatism in the debate.