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Thread: General Election - 8thJune

  1. #1591
    Alistair20000's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryhall View Post
    Just for accuracy, you should probably move both Corbyn and McDonnell's name it to the list of those who "sowed the seeds of all this" - they were missing in action throughout the campaigning around Brexit. This means they were either (a) asleep at the wheel, (b) supportive of Brexit but not coming out and saying so for political expediency, or (c) opposed to Brexit and allowing something they disagree with to happen in the hopes of being elected as a result.

    However critical I might be of May and Cameron (and lord knows, that's a lot) - I find it hard to see any other explanation for Corbyn & McDermott's utter indifference throughout the Brexit campaign (particulary when you see how well they campaigned in the GE) and based on that I wouldn't want to see either of them in No. 10/11 either.

    I would find it easier to celebrate the Tory party infighting if I thought that there was any party that could step in and do a better job. Right now - who would that be?
    I suggest (b). Corbyn cannot pursue his socialist economic agenda while we are in the EU in view of "state aid" rules.

  2. #1592
    exeweb.com mod Jason H's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Of course it was b. Corbyn was, until he became the Glorious Leader, one of the leading voices on the Labour backbenches opposed to the EU.

  3. #1593
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Agree I am certain it was (b), but left in the other options as they are both still theoretically possible (although all plausible evidence points squarely at b)

  4. #1594

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryhall View Post
    Agree I am certain it was (b), but left in the other options as they are both still theoretically possible (although all plausible evidence points squarely at b)
    You're forgetting that the Tories called for the referendum, the Tories declared that the result would be final and acted upon, and the Tories who clearly had no contingency plan to deal with a Brexit vote. It was the Tory government's responsibility to have made all arrangements and preparations in case the people voted for Brexit, but they failed disastrously. They are absolutely clueless about what to do and playing for time in the hope that somehow everything will be OK. They are surviving on a wing and a prayer, which is why it doesn't really matter who their next leader will be : there is no decent candidate to sort the mess out.
    Finally, trying to blame Labour reminds me of Trump blaming Obama for all of USA's problems.
    I don't have much faith in Labour, but they deserve a chance to run the country.

  5. #1595
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    I'm not forgetting that at all Mike. It was such terrible short sighted politicking and was essentially Dave and Boris facing off against each other in a Bullindon Club debate and hang the consequences.

    None of that changes the fact that Corbyn and McDermott simply sat back and watched while this went on, nominally supporting Remain (so as not to be seen backing Cameron) but not lifting a finger to do anything about it (so as not to be seen backing Remain) and that I find despicable.

    I am not blaming Labour; I am saying Corbyn and McDermott are among the individuals responsible. The Brexit debate was never drawn along party lines. I agree Labour deserve a chance to run the country, I've posted here before I think to say that for my money I wish Yvette Cooper had won the leadership context and I think she would have made an excellent opposition leader, and would have been interested to see what she could have done as PM. Unfortunately her husband is a politcal millstone around her neck and she has rightly stuck to her political principles and stayed a mile away from Corbyn's shadow cabinet.

    Off the top of my head, the most credible candidate amongst current Labour MPs to have the wherewithal to really do a job as leader / challenge in a GE for PM would probably be Chuka Umunna.

  6. #1596
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Terry, which of the two are you lambasting, is it Terry or Brian ?

    Both main parties are split over Europe, and have been for years. Would like to see 'true' remainers from both camps come together, find consensus and forge a new centrist pro-EU party, a la Macron. Umunna, Cooper, Hammond, Grieve, Starmer, Soubrey, Clarke etc etc etc

    Currently, there's a gaping void on the middle ground that the dear ol' Lib Dems are unable to fill.

  7. #1597

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryhall View Post
    I'm not forgetting that at all Mike. It was such terrible short sighted politicking and was essentially Dave and Boris facing off against each other in a Bullindon Club debate and hang the consequences.

    None of that changes the fact that Corbyn and McDermott simply sat back and watched while this went on, nominally supporting Remain (so as not to be seen backing Cameron) but not lifting a finger to do anything about it (so as not to be seen backing Remain) and that I find despicable.

    I am not blaming Labour; I am saying Corbyn and McDermott are among the individuals responsible. The Brexit debate was never drawn along party lines. I agree Labour deserve a chance to run the country, I've posted here before I think to say that for my money I wish Yvette Cooper had won the leadership context and I think she would have made an excellent opposition leader, and would have been interested to see what she could have done as PM. Unfortunately her husband is a politcal millstone around her neck and she has rightly stuck to her political principles and stayed a mile away from Corbyn's shadow cabinet.

    Off the top of my head, the most credible candidate amongst current Labour MPs to have the wherewithal to really do a job as leader / challenge in a GE for PM would probably be Chuka Umunna.
    But it will be Corbyn v A.N.Other, Terry. Ummuna could be a good candidate to succeed Corbyn some time in the future.

  8. #1598
    Spoonz Red E's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    While I can't, hand on heart, dismiss the (b) option there is also a (d) option.
    A refusal to promote remain in concert with David Cameron's/Gordon Osborne's line and strategy.
    The end result of the likes of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling being so close to the Conservatives during the Scottish referendum campaign was a factor in Labour's subsequent drubbing in the following General Election.

  9. #1599
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Must be so reassuring for poor 'ickle Mrs Teaser to have the whole Cabinet behind her during her recent (and HIGHLY CONVENIENT!!!) attack of the 'sniffles'



    Although, perhaps, since the "strong and stable" remedies patently haven't worked these might help our nation even more.

    Last edited by Grecian2K; 06 October 2017 at 16:21.

  10. #1600
    exeweb.com mod Jason H's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoMike View Post
    But it will be Corbyn v A.N.Other, Terry. Ummuna could be a good candidate to succeed Corbyn some time in the future.
    Not sure if the skeletons he allegedly has in his closet (and I've no idea what they are) would count against him. Certainly stopped him from standing last time, if word is to be believed.

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