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Thread: General Election - 8thJune

  1. #1511
    exeweb.com mod Jason H's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by elginCity View Post
    As an aside, so far this year 2,877 people have been shot in Chicago alone, 527 killed. This past weekend there were 4 gun killings and 28 injured.

    Figures this year are slightly down on last year. A very sick society.
    The problems in Chicago are more deep-seated with this whole "Sanctuary City" concept.

  2. #1512
    Terryhall's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    I'm talking specifically about your first sentence - gun ownership seen as a deterrent from the "bad guys" shooting the "good guys" in burglaries etc.

    You may reduce the 1516 "mass" shootings by making guns harder to obtain (and of course I'd fully agree the background checks need to be much tougher - but on the flip side this may increase the black market gun economy), but it may well be that this is offset by 1516+ "individual" shootings, usually in someone's home or through carjacking.

    The key is, there is simply no quick fix, and making it harder to obtain guns will penalise the "good guys" while giving the "bad guys" carte blanche. They WILL still have guns, it would be somewhat nave to think otherwise.
    I still don't agree with your last sentence. How will it penalise the "good guys"? Victims of the Las Vegas attack have gone on record as saying the guns they had with them were useless - they would have risked being mistaken for the attacker and shot by police had they drawn them.

    As for the bad guys - are you really saying everyone who has easy access to a gun today - easier than opening a bank account in many states let's not forget - will have just as easy access on the black market? It won't prevent criminals obtaining guns if they really want to do so, but it is reductive thinking to do nothing because you can't stop everything. If that logic were to be considered valid, why have laws at all?

    The right of a person to attend a music festival without being shot has to exceed the right of a citizen to buy a gun and shoot at people. The fact that he would break the law to do so, does not mean there shouldn't be a law at all.

  3. #1513
    Pete Martin (CTID)'s Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by elginCity View Post
    As an aside, so far this year 2,877 people have been shot in Chicago alone, 527 killed. This past weekend there were 4 gun killings and 28 injured.

    Figures this year are slightly down on last year. A very sick society.
    1.5million have been shot dead in the USA since 1969.

  4. #1514

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair20000 View Post
    If guns were controlled wouldn't the nutters just find a different way ?
    Well they would, but as you've seen with the most recent terrorist attack on these shores, they can only kill so many with knives and cars/vans. Imagine if the 3 nutters at London Bridge were each armed with an AR-15...the death toll would've been in the hundreds. That's the difference.

    Thank your lucky stars that you can't really get these over here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw

  5. #1515
    elginCity's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    The problems in Chicago are more deep-seated with this whole "Sanctuary City" concept.
    Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, while there's plenty of reputable studies determine that a 'sanctuary city' policy has no effect on crime rates either way. Despite what Jeff Sessions claimed.

  6. #1516

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    The problems in Chicago are more deep-seated with this whole "Sanctuary City" concept.
    I don't get your point.

  7. #1517
    Alistair20000's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    I don't get what this has to do with the General Election - 8 June 2017.

  8. #1518

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair20000 View Post
    I don't get what this has to do with the General Election - 8 June 2017.
    It's called the "Social Club", Ali. People are being social.

  9. #1519

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Another day and Boris is back at it again, making jokes about dead bodies in Libya.

  10. #1520
    exeweb.com mod Jason H's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryhall View Post
    Agree with that. The fact of the referendum being disputed and branded as illegal by Madrid will have had the dual effect of motivating "yes" voters to turn up and register their protest vote, as well as dissuading any "no" voters from voting at all (if only so as not to be inadvertently targeted by police cracking down on the vote). From that perspective, it's hard to draw any meaningful conclusions hence my caveat that tons of context is needed.

    That said, it is still interesting to me that over 2m people voted in favour of Catalonian independence yesterday, and that as a pure % of the total eligible voter base, that is still proportionally higher than voted Leave in the 2016 EU referendum. Regardless of the imponderables around what the "no" vote might have looked like in a more legitimate referendum, I would find it hard to believe that any of yesterdays "yes" voters would have actually voted "no" under other circumstances (albeit that they may have simply not turned up - but again that's far from certain.)
    To go back to this other story, I had a little read up around this, and apparently opinion polling on independence is/was very even, but when the question was narrowed in terms of this referendum and those "certain to vote" it swung heavily behind pro-independence. This suggests my inference that those not voting would break heavily down on the side of "no" to independence is probably quite accurate.

    It also makes for some very "interesting" times ahead given the Catalonia President chappy has announced the intention to declare independence.

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