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Thread: General Election - 8thJune

  1. #1461
    Stuffy's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by elginCity View Post
    I won't be expecting Jon Snow, or anybody else, to wear a poppy.

    Personal choice is among the freedoms that you (and I) served to defend. UTC.
    You are quite right. It's very much a freedom of choice.

    Luckily for me I never knew anyone who was badly wounded during the war. My dad was classed unfit for service although he had to give up his compositor's job in Exeter and go and work in a Bristol aircraft factory. I do recall an ex RAF wing commander who drank in the Eagle by the Prison. This gallant chap's nerves must have still been pretty shot away as he shifted copious pints of cider. He did his bit to remain smart by wearing badged up blazer and RAF tie.

  2. #1462
    Grecian2K's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    You know, I almost feel sorry for Teaser*

    Clowns to the left of me
    Jokers to the right
    Here I am - stuck in the middle with EU


    * Almost, but NOT QUITE - she's always been a boring robotic jobsworth who tries to put party first, self second and country very much last

  3. #1463

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Grecian2K View Post
    You know, I almost feel sorry for Teaser*

    Clowns to the left of me
    Jokers to the right
    Here I am - stuck in the middle with EU


    * Almost, but NOT QUITE - she's always been a boring robotic jobsworth who tries to put party first, self second and country very much last
    We'll soon have Boris, who puts self first, party second and country not at all

  4. #1464
    exeweb.com admin Hants_red's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    I think tonight's statement by the Foreign Office on what's been happening in Catalonia shows that Boris just ain't fit for government at any level.

  5. #1465

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Hants_red View Post
    I think tonight's statement by the Foreign Office on what's been happening in Catalonia shows that Boris just ain't fit for government at any level.
    Unfortunately the paucity of other candidates means that probably won't matter.

  6. #1466

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffy View Post
    If you take a look at the 1945 western border of Russia at the end of the war (google it) you'll see that from top to bottom it reads: Estonia, Latvia, Belarus and the Ukraine. Now, all those were part of the USSR, which means the Russian border had a buffer of client states protecting it from a possible land/air invasion. Nowadays the only country that's fully aligned itself with Russia is Belarus, which means in all those former friendly countries, a potential enemy can cat butt up to the very fence posts that marks Russia's borderline. At the end of WW2 Britain suffered just under 400,000 fatalities, the USA just under 300,000, while Russia's casualties numbered an eye watering 20,000,000. Like Nigel Farage said: "If you poke the Russian bear with a stick you'll get a reaction".

    1944 saw Stalin move 200,000 of the indigenous Tartars out of the Crimea and the Russian people in. In the 80's the Tartars were allowed to return, however, the Russian Language remained the dominant tongue which is why in a referendum in 2014 the populace voted to become Russian again.

    As I've mentioned before now, The Crimea, during the time of the USSR, was a hotbed of military activity with dockyards and anchorage for the Mediterranean/Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol. There are also 3 military airfields close-by. It would have been a grave dereliction of duty by the Russian generals, air marshals and admirals if they hadn't warned Putin of the gravity of allowing the Crimea to remain in Ukrainian hands especially if they fully joined the EU which could see French and German armed forces taking up residence. If the Empire building EU get involved in an unilateral war with the Ruskies they'll get their sorry arses kicked.
    Hi Stuffy.
    Yes, I know that the Russians suffered greatly in the 2nd World War and after the defeat of the Nazis they were loathe to give back the lands they invaded as they pushed the nazis back. I understand that after being invaded by Germany they wanted to ensure that it couldn't happen again by extending their border far to the West. But that doesn't excuse the Russians for operating authoritarian rule over so many of those "satellite" countries for so long. The Soviet Union was a misnomer, in that a union is assumed to be voluntary. I do agree that Nato has to some extent provoked Russia by pushing its arms and troops closer to Russia.
    IMO Putin is a ***** and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. But again, from his perspective Russia was humiliated by losing the Soviet Union, humiliated by retreating from Afghanistan, and humiliated by having a vodka-fuelled President in Yeltsin, so from his perspective his actions are understandable. Also Hilary Clinton tried to have an impact on the Russian elections, so it's not difficult to understand why Putin wanted revenge.
    I passed Russian at A level* : no big deal in itself but it reflects my interest in the country - in general I have always been sympathetic to their cause - but you can't justify the unjustifiable.
    * I also have a budgerigar.
    Last edited by IndoMike; 01 October 2017 at 23:50.

  7. #1467

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Hants_red View Post
    I think tonight's statement by the Foreign Office on what's been happening in Catalonia shows that Boris just ain't fit for government at any level.
    Things are not always so simple. As a romantic I too feel that the Catalans should be able to hold a referendum in peace. But from the Spanish government's perspective it is very difficult to allow independence for Catalunia. Firstly, what happens if another region of Spain, for example the Basque country or Galicia demanded independence? What would Spain do then? In addition, there will still be Franco-ites in the army and Guardia Civil. If Catalunia became independent, how would the right wing elements respond? And semi- jokingly, what would happen to the Barca - Madrid games? Finally, if (say) the North-East of England wanted independence, would we agree? So my gut says independence for Catalunia, but my head says :" Err, hold on a minute".
    Last edited by IndoMike; 02 October 2017 at 05:16.

  8. #1468

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoMike View Post
    Things are not always so simple. As a romantic I too feel that the Catalans should be able to hold a referendum in peace. But from the Spanish government's perspective it is very difficult to allow independence for Catalunia. Firstly, what happens if another region of Spain, for example the Basque country or Galicia demanded independence? What would Spain do then? In addition, there will still be Franco-ites in the army and Guardia Civil. If Catalunia became independent, how would the right wing elements respond? And semi- jokingly, what would happen to the Barca - Madrid games? Finally, if (say) the North-East of England wanted independence, would we agree? So my gut says independence for Catalunia, but my head says :" Err, hold on a minute".
    It's not about the referendum though, it's about the police beating the hell out of people. We should be condemning the violence (as most other leaders have done).

  9. #1469

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
    It's not about the referendum though, it's about the police beating the hell out of people. We should be condemning the violence (as most other leaders have done).
    Of course. I was just commenting on the political aspect. Haven't seen the Foreign Office statement , but assumed Boris' comment was pro Spanish Govt. Couldn't be any different, could it?
    Last edited by IndoMike; 02 October 2017 at 08:09.

  10. #1470

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoMike View Post
    Of course. I was just commenting on the political aspect. Haven't seen the Foreign Office statement , but assumed Boris' comment was pro Spanish Govt. Couldn't be any different, could it?
    Yes, but most of the statements backed the Spanish government while condemning the violence. Ours just said "The referendum is a matter for the Spanish government and people. We want to see Spanish law and the Spanish constitution respected and the rule of law upheld. Spain is a close ally and a good friend, whose strength and unity matters to us." A bit cold if you ask me, plenty of room for a "but" in there.

    The political aspect is very complicated, but there does seem to be a grey area over whether we fully support self-determination (Falklands, Scotland), or whether we don't (Crimea, Catalonia).

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