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Thread: General Election - 8thJune

  1. #1431
    Stuffy's Avatar
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
    Hence why we live in a representative democracy, not democracy by plebiscite. We shouldn't be making monumental decisions on the basis of which side is best at lying.
    So why have a referendum at all?

    Ah! referendums, representative or plebiscitary, are to be honoured - as long as you get the 'desired' result - as was the case in 1975 for Wilson and Heath. Nowadays it seems that (for some) plebiscitary is now wrong and we must go again???

    Funny thing is that in referendum No1 in 1975 I was on the winning side and voted wholeheartedly to remain because we were not informed about: 1. Ever closer union. 2. Ditch imperial and adopt metric. 3. Immigration never got a mention. 4. Most importantly, English common law would 'not' be affected by staying in the EU.

    I imagine that if the populace had gotten wind of what was in store the vote would have been much different.

  2. #1432
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Exactly , did the same too at the time Stuffy.Felt I was conned after , all the big press guns were on the side of staying.Don't believe what you read , but , as the song goes , I was younger then.

  3. #1433
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
    Different types of trade though. We buy goods, which are very easy to come to a deal on. Conversely 80% of what we're selling are services, which are far more difficult to come to terms over.

    Plus we stand to lose a hell of a lot more than they do, so once again, they hold all the cards.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that, I think it depends on who "they" are. The 24 out of 27 nations who get subsidised by the other 3 stand to lose big time. Not sure they will be very happy about that. Maybe they might ask Germany for a bit of reform as well. Germany have created the biggest export market in Europe through clever use of the EU and how the monies get divvied out to members who buy their products, if that pot is significantly reduced that will put a big strain on Germany if they want to continue with business as usual. A lot of angles in this, and in my view the EU holding ALL the cards is a media fallacy
    Last edited by Avening Posse; 28 September 2017 at 22:12.

  4. #1434

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    I just don't see what the problem is/was being a member of the EU. Surely we have done very well out of it, and have become the 2nd biggest economy in Europe after Germany. And of course Germany has done the best. They work bloody hard and have a much bigger population than the UK. We didn't want to join the Euro and we were allowed not to : hardly dictatorial behavior from the EU. Of course some sectors of UK industry are negatively impacted, but there has to be give and take. Regarding immigration, does anyone really think our current woes are as a result of immigration? Do we think the ailing NHS is due to being a member if the EU? Or poor transportation? Or the constant traffic jams in Exeter? No, most of our problems are due to overpaid, incompetent UK bureaucrats who can't organize a p*ss up in a brewery.
    With the EU we have had 80 years of relative peace in Europe - a record. It's not perfect and some things need to be improved- but IMO the hubris of the Brits to want to go it alone is astonishing. Churchill supported the idea of a United States of Europe : if it was good enough for him then it's good enough for me. Churchill or Farage (and more about him later)?

  5. #1435

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffy View Post
    So why have a referendum at all?

    Ah! referendums, representative or plebiscitary, are to be honoured - as long as you get the 'desired' result - as was the case in 1975 for Wilson and Heath. Nowadays it seems that (for some) plebiscitary is now wrong and we must go again???

    Funny thing is that in referendum No1 in 1975 I was on the winning side and voted wholeheartedly to remain because we were not informed about: 1. Ever closer union. 2. Ditch imperial and adopt metric. 3. Immigration never got a mention. 4. Most importantly, English common law would 'not' be affected by staying in the EU.

    I imagine that if the populace had gotten wind of what was in store the vote would have been much different.
    Maybe for you, I'm quite happy with all of that. Particularly getting rid of imperial, that's a ridiculous system.

  6. #1436

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoMike View Post
    I just don't see what the problem is/was being a member of the EU. Surely we have done very well out of it, and have become the 2nd biggest economy in Europe after Germany. And of course Germany has done the best. They work bloody hard and have a much bigger population than the UK. We didn't want to join the Euro and we were allowed not to : hardly dictatorial behavior from the EU. Of course some sectors of UK industry are negatively impacted, but there has to be give and take. Regarding immigration, does anyone really think our current woes are as a result of immigration? Do we think the ailing NHS is due to being a member if the EU? Or poor transportation? Or the constant traffic jams in Exeter? No, most of our problems are due to overpaid, incompetent UK bureaucrats who can't organize a p*ss up in a brewery.
    With the EU we have had 80 years of relative peace in Europe - a record. It's not perfect and some things need to be improved- but IMO the hubris of the Brits to want to go it alone is astonishing. Churchill supported the idea of a United States of Europe : if it was good enough for him then it's good enough for me. Churchill or Farage (and more about him later)?
    It's easier to blame someone else than look inward of course. I wonder who they will blame once we've left the EU?

  7. #1437

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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
    It's easier to blame someone else than look inward of course. I wonder who they will blame once we've left the EU?
    Sorry, Herman. Just wanted you to clarify who the "they" are. Not 100% obvious who you meant.

  8. #1438
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    There's a lot of clear blue water between the views of, say, an IndoMike and a Stuffy, fr'instance.

    There's definitely a continuing polar divide in the country re EU membership, difficult to imagine how it would ever be bridged.

  9. #1439
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    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoMike View Post
    Farage (and more about him later)?
    Is old rubber face about to make another comeback Indo ? It must be about time.

  10. #1440

    Re: General Election - 8thJune

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoMike View Post
    Sorry, Herman. Just wanted you to clarify who the "they" are. Not 100% obvious who you meant.
    Generally those that blame the EU for our problems. UKIP, most of the Conservatives, Kate Hoey etc.

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