Ethan Ampadu

[IndoMike]

Yes of course. Budgeting actually becomes much more of a headache if we do get promoted, as clearly there is a desire to have a competitive L1 budget, but also the risk of a swift return to L2 and the resulting loss of revenue (compared to L1).

Yes, this is why we have Taggy, several club directors and the Trust Board. One assumes that the combined brain power of all of these can work things out.
Plus we have the experience of our last sojourn in Div 1 to work on. As I said before, I trust Taggy to sort it out.
The fact is that whatever happens there is no bottomless pit and no significant way to increase our income dramatically except for selling players or a big Cup run, unless our sales department can think of a way.

 

[Grecian in Guzz]

This

I still don't know what the term "cash-critical" means, but whatever it is we're not because either 1) we sell someone from the crop of youngsters to support the wage budget, or 2) we scrap experienced players (who are most, if not all, presumably on a deal shorter than our alleged 2 year cash horizon) and bring through the youth. The academy will be the last thing to get scrapped, as long as the players are good enough. The problem will be if the quality is no longer good enough to produce first team players - in which case we should question it for reasons non-financial!

I actually believe we might be being cautious with regard to our budget. It assumes no cup-runs, no player sales, no sell-on clauses. If that sustains us on a 2 year cycle, surely you would expect something in that time period to come through. How much has the leasing.com made us this year? Probably at least half the shortfall. Plus, as others mentioned, there's the Stansfield + Boateng money. Last year there was Storey... Also, as John Williams alluded to attendances are up which probably means the impacts of the new stand haven't been bedded in to our base forecasts yet. The financial results for this season will definitely be interesting and give a good indication of what our true financial base position is!

Matt.
I don’t know exactly what has been built into the club’s critical cashflow point forecast but in our Trust Chairman’s Dec 2019 newsletter he acknowledges that some of the windfall income this year has indeed deferred the critical point from January 2022 to July 2022. I also accept your point that (hopefully) the remainder of the season could generate additional windfall funding to that previously budgeted therefore further deferring the critical point.

However, at the Trust AGM last November, Julian Tagg pointed out that the “consequences for our budgeting could be catastrophic” if we have “a barren spell for two or three years” and likened our financial situation as being chased by a “juggernaut” towards a “cliff edge” . At the same AGM our Finance Director made the point that our financial reporting structure is designed “to ensure both boards know with some certainty when and if problems are likely to occur, most importantly cash flow problems, so we can start to plan well in advance the measures required to stave off those problems.” (https://1a1abc6b-ab19-4147-8bc5-b3a8f8ada934.filesusr.com/ugd/414a8e_711cdfd2ba2e475eb4944e41aa332227.pdf )

Julian Tagg also said at the AGM that “bumping along the bottom waiting for the juggernaut to catch up has no appeal for me and I believe many others” .

I am one of the ‘others’ mentioned by Julian above and don’t want the club to go backwards due to having to cut budgets, loose our academy) etc. This is why, like Julian Tagg ( https://www.devonlive.com/sport/football/fulham-exeter-city-championship-football-3110749 )& Matt Taylor (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51134903 ), I’m trying to publicise the negative effects of the EPPP on our major income generator and widen the debate nationally to ensure that lower league football clubs, like ours, can remain sustainable and continue to supply the Premier League with ‘one of our own’ like Ethan Ampadu.

Taking Ethan as an example for instance the Tribunal valued him then at £2.5 million (combination of £1.3 million up front and £1.25 million dependant on up to 50 first team appearances). Under the EPPP, as Ethan was at our academy for 8 years, we would have got just £100k !

No organisation, let alone Fan Owned Exeter City, can afford to take over a 95% reduction in their major income stream.

This is why I call on Fellow Grecians to continue to lobby as I did last weekend (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ffrn from 28min 30 sec) before the ‘juggernaut’ forces us too close to the ‘cliff edge’ to survive as we are.

UTC & Be Loud & Proud of the Club WE Own

 

[Jason H]

EPPP was in place when Ethan was sold to Chelsea, yet we still got a seven-figure fee (which in itself was derisory).

The Academy is not just about selling players for big bucks.

 

[LOG]

Ethan wasn't covered under EPPP rules (which may have been your point).

 

[Boyo]

EPPP was in place when Ethan was sold to Chelsea, yet we still got a seven-figure fee (which in itself was derisory).

The Academy is not just about selling players for big bucks.

There was a unique and special set of circumstances that meant that the Ampadu transfer went to a tribunal, rather than the default EPPP formula. Guzz is right that we (lower league fans) should be up in arms about EPPP. It's not sustainable and it's fundamentally unfair for Clubs who invest in Academies and youngsters.

 

[Jason H]

Absolutely we should be up in arms about EPPP, but that's not the be all and end all re: our academy.

 

[Boyo]

Yes, this is why we have Taggy, several club directors and the Trust Board. One assumes that the combined brain power of all of these can work things out.
Plus we have the experience of our last sojourn in Div 1 to work on. As I said before, I trust Taggy to sort it out.
The fact is that whatever happens there is no bottomless pit and no significant way to increase our income dramatically except for selling players or a big Cup run, unless our sales department can think of a way.

Within 12 months of being relegated we had to take on a number of loans to meet month to month bills. The sale of Grimes really did dig us out of that particular hole.

 

[Grecian in Guzz]

This

I still don't know what the term "cash-critical" means, but whatever it is we're not because either 1) we sell someone from the crop of youngsters to support the wage budget, or 2) we scrap experienced players (who are most, if not all, presumably on a deal shorter than our alleged 2 year cash horizon) and bring through the youth. The academy will be the last thing to get scrapped, as long as the players are good enough. The problem will be if the quality is no longer good enough to produce first team players - in which case we should question it for reasons non-financial!

I actually believe we might be being cautious with regard to our budget. It assumes no cup-runs, no player sales, no sell-on clauses. If that sustains us on a 2 year cycle, surely you would expect something in that time period to come through. How much has the leasing.com made us this year? Probably at least half the shortfall. Plus, as others mentioned, there's the Stansfield + Boateng money. Last year there was Storey... Also, as John Williams alluded to attendances are up which probably means the impacts of the new stand haven't been bedded in to our base forecasts yet. The financial results for this season will definitely be interesting and give a good indication of what our true financial base position is!

Matt.
I don’t know exactly what has been built into the club’s critical cashflow point forecast but in our Trust Chairman’s Dec 2019 newsletter he acknowledges that some of the windfall income this year has indeed deferred the critical point from January 2022 to July 2022. I also accept your point that (hopefully) the remainder of the season could generate additional windfall funding to that previously budgeted therefore further deferring the critical point.

However, at the Trust AGM last November, Julian Tagg pointed out that the “consequences for our budgeting could be catastrophic” if we have “a barren spell for two or three years” and likened our financial situation as being chased by a “juggernaut” towards a “cliff edge” . At the same AGM our Finance Director made the point that our financial reporting structure is designed “to ensure both boards know with some certainty when and if problems are likely to occur, most importantly cash flow problems, so we can start to plan well in advance the measures required to stave off those problems.” (https://1a1abc6b-ab19-4147-8bc5-b3a8f8ada934.filesusr.com/ugd/414a8e_711cdfd2ba2e475eb4944e41aa332227.pdf )

Julian Tagg also said at the AGM that “bumping along the bottom waiting for the juggernaut to catch up has no appeal for me and I believe many others” .

I am one of the ‘others’ mentioned by Julian and don’t want the club to go backwards due to having to cut budgets, loose our academy) etc. This is why, like Julian Tagg ( https://www.devonlive.com/sport/football/fulham-exeter-city-championship-football-3110749 )& Matt Taylor (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51134903 ), I’m trying to publicise the negative effects of the EPPP on our major income generator and widen the debate nationally to ensure that lower league football clubs, like ours, can remain sustainable and continue to supply the Premier League with ‘one of our own’ like Ethan Ampadu.

Taking Ethan as an example for instance the Tribunal valued him then at £2.5 million (combination of £1.3 million up front and £1.25 million dependant on up to 50 first team appearances). Under the EPPP, as Ethan was at our academy for 8 years, we would have got just £100k !

No organisation, let alone Fan Owned Exeter City, can afford to take over a 95% reduction in their major income stream.

This is why I call on Fellow Grecians to continue to lobby as I did last weekend (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ffrn from 28min 30 sec) before the ‘juggernaut’ forces us too close to the ‘cliff edge’ to survive as we are.

UTC

 

[Boyo]

Absolutely we should be up in arms about EPPP, but that's not the be all and end all re: our academy.

The ability to sell players developed within our Academy for significant fees, is fundamental to the future of the Academy and arguably the Club.

 

[IndoMike]

Within 12 months of being relegated we had to take on a number of loans to meet month to month bills. The sale of Grimes really did dig us out of that particular hole.

This is why I say we have to learn lessons from our last visit to Div 1 (assuming we go up).