Politics Today

[Bittners a Legend]

This report would suggest the British public do still support Freedom of Movement

The hidden truth: Polling shows the public are open to free movement

As the Tories try to make immigration an election issue, new polling reveals the hidden extent of public support for free movement.

www.politics.co.uk

I think regardless of what one thinks of immigration you cannot deny, unless being wilfully dishonest, that despite what some in the media report a "tough" immigration policy (particularly the one Patel is currently proposing) will damage and not strengthen British public services. There will always be cheats and there always have been. Most of them are British sadly.

 

[Grecian2K]

I'd hardly call 43.6% of the vote a "stonking majority".
The majority of seats is largely delivered by a distorted electoral system that invariably favours one, or more, of the "big parties" at the expense of the rest. And example of this in 2019 was the Lib Dems who, in spite of increasing their vote count by over 4% still managed to lose be seat.
No wonder that about the one and only things both the Lab & Con sides have consistently found common ground on over the years is voting reform.

 

[IndoMike]

You always know when the liberal left is struggling for an argument when they start talking about the real "majority of the British people" in attempt no doubt to try and explain away the Tories stonking great mandate the British people have just given them.
I know you like to make this about Labour vs Tory at every available opportunity, hence your liking to find a Tory equivalence to every negative story about Labour, but this is less about Tories pretending to care about ordinary working people, but more about Labour's now widely acknowledged slow and gradual abandonment of its once staunch core vote.
I don't think patiently waiting for the Tories to show their true colours toward its new voters is ever going to be enough. Labour has to find a message way way more inspiring than that IMO.
You are basically saying that if only other people were as clever as me to spot how awful the Tories really are. Intelligent and sensible old Labour voters are now voting Tory, let that sink in.

So remind me what percentage of the British electorate voted for a Conservative Govt. Hardly a stonking majority, was it?
This is why we need Proportional Representation. Which true democrat could disagree with PR, when clearly it is what it says!
Regarding your last comment, I do think the majority is as smart as me : that's why they didn't vote Conservative
I agree Labour needs to sort itself out. In fact, I think it should break up into 2 parties. But the Tories should do that, too, i.e. Right wingers and One Britainers.
British politics needs an overhaul. Parliament needs to reflect more precisely the views of the electorate. Millions of voters agree that the environment is a major issue but that issue is barely represented in parliament. We just get platitudes from the major parties

 

[tavyred]

I'd hardly call 43.6% of the vote a "stonking majority".
The majority of seats is largely delivered by a distorted electoral system that invariably favours one, or more, of the "big parties" at the expense of the rest. And example of this in 2019 was the Lib Dems who, in spite of increasing their vote count by over 4% still managed to lose be seat.
No wonder that about the one and only things both the Lab & Con sides have consistently found common ground on over the years is voting reform.

I said stonking mandate not majority, although under our system they obviously have both. In a multi-party parliamentary democracy you are never going to get a nice and neat 50%+ popular vote to justify the winning party doing as it pleases. I note you didn't mention the GE in which UKip got millions of votes finished 3rd and got one MP.

 

[Anonymous]

Green Party: 800,000 votes per seat.

Tories: 20,000 votes per seat.

UKIP: 22,817 for zero seats.

 

[tavyred]

Green Party: 800,000 votes per seat.

Tories: 20,000 votes per seat.

UKIP: 22,817 for zero seats.

.......and had our most recent GE returned a Labour or a more left leaning government into power, you and others on here wouldn't give a stuff about our democratic system.

 

[Anonymous]

.......and had our most recent GE returned a Labour or a more left leaning government into power, you and others on here wouldn't give a stuff about our democratic system.

Thats not true. I think Labour are a shambles and have no desire to see them in government. I think not having proportional representation in this country is frankly disgusting. I'm quite happy to go on record saying I'm a member of the green party although I vote Lib Dem in my constituency to keep the Tories out (relatively safe LD in SW London).

 

[Grecian2K]

I only referred to the most recent GE but agree the same illogicality applies to that particular UKIP situation as well. OK?

Oh, and just to humour your "inner-pedant" I will rephrase my first sentence.
I'd hardly call 43.6% of the vote a stonking mandate.
Fair enough?

 

[Jason H]

This report would suggest the British public do still support Freedom of Movement

The hidden truth: Polling shows the public are open to free movement

As the Tories try to make immigration an election issue, new polling reveals the hidden extent of public support for free movement.

www.politics.co.uk

I think regardless of what one thinks of immigration you cannot deny, unless being wilfully dishonest, that despite what some in the media report a "tough" immigration policy (particularly the one Patel is currently proposing) will damage and not strengthen British public services. There will always be cheats and there always have been. Most of them are British sadly.

That article raises some interesting points although comes across as rather one-eyed (I don't believe the blurb that he was a Leaver who changed his mind - the tone of the article simply doesn't back this up). The question could have conflated peoples' minds with those *already* here from the EU and vice versa rather than continued free movement of citizens to and from the EU post-Brexit as it wasn't particularly clear. However, the tone of the other question about whether EU and non-EU citizens should be treated differently (which gave a decisive answer away from EU freedom of movement) was pretty clear in its intent.

Possibly another slant is to consider in the minds of those polled "How free is free?" - from what I can see the overwhelming majority are happy with *some* immigration, especially where there are skills gaps (you'd be mad not to think that skills gaps should be filled by any means necessary), while some take the nuanced view of "I want to retire to Spain, so Spanish people should have the option of retiring to the UK", which again I get. The tipping point, however, is where you have people moving countries in order to look for work (rather than to start work) - this "freedom of movement" is probably thought of less favourably.

Personally this is largely where I draw the line - we as a country should be free to recruit to need. And yes, it should be up to Spain as to how many of our Essex gangsters they let in.

 

[tavyred]

I don't see how judging political mandates against a system that doesn't apply here gets us anywhere Chaps. Unless its just wishful thinking or sour grapes of course.