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GENERAL ELECTION 2019

geoffwp

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I tell you what that was a very smart left with some decent power behind it. Showed his boxing credentials.
 

GJW

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Sorry, been a bit slow getting on this thread. So just wanted to say well done to Boris and the Conservative party. Looking forward to seeing all of their promises becoming a reality and the Country, if not the whole World, becoming a better place.

Right, let’s all move on now and close the thread.
 

Grecian2K

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I will stick my head above the electoral parapet as someone who is (still) a firm labour supporter despite the current debacle.

No one can deny it has been an agonizing reverse. Especially as, for someone with fundamentally socialist views it has allowed a relatively right-wing Tory clique relatively unfettered power for the next five years. Fair enough - it is the indisputable will of (43.6% of) the voting electorate.

But, psephology and electoral quirks apart it is what it is. So where now?

One thing I have always believed is that, without a strong opposition the result is bad and unaccountable governance. This has been true, in recent decades, of both parties. Both with Thatcher in the 80s and Blair in the 2000s unfettered power fostered a decade or more of increasingly dubious administrations. Solely because the losing parties on each occasion were too focused on their own navel gazing and in-fighting to even bother to hold the respective Tory and Labour rulers to any form of proper account.

I do fear that, especially with the real "leg work" of Brexit now on the agenda - and a plethora of dubious manifesto "pledges" now on the table, the task of proper and effective scrutiny needs to start right from day 1. Something that, I fear, JC's emollient words about "time for reflection" in my party will do little to address.

Hence my own (admittedly extremely) radical suggestion that the current leader SHOULD stand down immediately and, pending ultimate choice of a long term leader (and hopefully future PM) to lead us into 2024 and beyond an interim leader should be appointed, not only to oversee the full and fair process to select the successor but also (and, arguably, even more importantly) face a euphoric and over-confident government in Parliament.

So (takes a deep breath here...) I would actually recommend MARGARET HODGE for such an interim post.

1) She is has a long standing record as an effective and fair-minded parliamentarian, but also a true and strong voice for the moderate Labour left.

2) Everything from her history, especially as head of committees, would point to the fact that she seems well respected, even by her opponents.

3) She speaks her mind well - I suspect "blustering BoJo" would not relish facing her at PMQs.

4) It cannot surely be suggested that her appointment at the head of the party, and active involvement in resolution, could do anything other that rest the bogie of "Antisemitism & cover ups" that was so effectively mobilised in this campaign.

5) She would, absolutely certainly, be only an interim hand to steady the ship in the short term, but also to lead effective opposition and begin to direct new policy as well.

I wonder how our "right leaning" friends here might view such a move!
 

Legohead

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I didn't realize that Corbyn was elected Labour leader in 2015! WTF has he been doing for nearly 5 years?! :poop:
 

Rosencrantz

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Jul 12, 2019
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Tiverton
I will stick my head above the electoral parapet as someone who is (still) a firm labour supporter despite the current debacle.

No one can deny it has been an agonizing reverse. Especially as, for someone with fundamentally socialist views it has allowed a relatively right-wing Tory clique relatively unfettered power for the next five years. Fair enough - it is the indisputable will of (43.6% of) the voting electorate.

But, psephology and electoral quirks apart it is what it is. So where now?

One thing I have always believed is that, without a strong opposition the result is bad and unaccountable governance. This has been true, in recent decades, of both parties. Both with Thatcher in the 80s and Blair in the 2000s unfettered power fostered a decade or more of increasingly dubious administrations. Solely because the losing parties on each occasion were too focused on their own navel gazing and in-fighting to even bother to hold the respective Tory and Labour rulers to any form of proper account.

I do fear that, especially with the real "leg work" of Brexit now on the agenda - and a plethora of dubious manifesto "pledges" now on the table, the task of proper and effective scrutiny needs to start right from day 1. Something that, I fear, JC's emollient words about "time for reflection" in my party will do little to address.

Hence my own (admittedly extremely) radical suggestion that the current leader SHOULD stand down immediately and, pending ultimate choice of a long term leader (and hopefully future PM) to lead us into 2024 and beyond an interim leader should be appointed, not only to oversee the full and fair process to select the successor but also (and, arguably, even more importantly) face a euphoric and over-confident government in Parliament.

So (takes a deep breath here...) I would actually recommend MARGARET HODGE for such an interim post.

1) She is has a long standing record as an effective and fair-minded parliamentarian, but also a true and strong voice for the moderate Labour left.

2) Everything from her history, especially as head of committees, would point to the fact that she seems well respected, even by her opponents.

3) She speaks her mind well - I suspect "blustering BoJo" would not relish facing her at PMQs.

4) It cannot surely be suggested that her appointment at the head of the party, and active involvement in resolution, could do anything other that rest the bogie of "Antisemitism & cover ups" that was so effectively mobilised in this campaign.

5) She would, absolutely certainly, be only an interim hand to steady the ship in the short term, but also to lead effective opposition and begin to direct new policy as well.

I wonder how our "right leaning" friends here might view such a move!
It would certainly be the normal thing for Corbyn to stand down quickly and have an interim leader and Hodge is as good a choice as any. However I fear Jezza will hold on and try to dictate the future to a Momentum direction rather than looking at a more moderate direction with a proper leader with the character and intelligence to hold the government to account (as much as you can in these circumstances).

The battle could be bloody.
 

geoffwp

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Good reasoning G2k, though I tend towards Kier Starmer. Another good longshot for me would be David Milliband (untainted by the Brexit mess). The union votes that put his brother in charge marks the begining of the party's slide to it's current low. How differently things might have worked out had the adenoid king not stolen David's crown. However, momentum will be pushing a very different agenda.
Of course Milliband would first need to rejoin politics and win himself a seat. Would he want to do that? Unfinished business might tempt him.
 
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Avening Posse

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I do find it amusing when the term momentum is used when the evidence suggests they don't have any ?
 

IndoMike

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Indeed. Brexit is being bandied about as the excuse, in that Labour had to keep both sides happy; an impossible task.

But what they are conveniently forgetting is that if Corbyn had passionately come out for Remain in 2016 pre Referendum, then Leave may never have won.

He was simply too supine for a leader.
He didn't want to remain! He was torn between his own personal desire to Leave and the wishes of many of his party to Remain. That was the problem that he couldn't solve, and everybody knew it.
 

IndoMike

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Corbyn is a "conviction" politician and there is no way he will just walk away and allow someone more moderate to take over the reins. Prepare for a civil war within the party and the continuation of a "Momentum" Labour Party, with scores of more moderate Labour MPs jumping ship.
There is a big space in the centre now which could attract support from disillusioned Labour, Liberal and even moderate Tory supporters. Perhaps there's someone out there who has the nous, energy and strength of character to take advantage of that. I know it's a long shot, but it would certainly help to "clean up" the current dysfunctional state of Labour and the ineffectiveness of the Liberals.
 

geoffwp

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Corbyn is a "conviction" politician and there is no way he will just walk away and allow someone more moderate to take over the reins. Prepare for a civil war within the party and the continuation of a "Momentum" Labour Party, with scores of more moderate Labour MPs jumping ship.
There is a big space in the centre now which could attract support from disillusioned Labour, Liberal and even moderate Tory supporters. Perhaps there's someone out there who has the nous, energy and strength of character to take advantage of that. I know it's a long shot, but it would certainly help to "clean up" the current dysfunctional state of Labour and the ineffectiveness of the Liberals.
Just on that note Mike, the lib dems polled over 3.6 million votes, 11.5%, for 11 seats whereas labour polled just under 3 times that number for nearly 20 times more seats. I'd say the system is the most ineffective part of it.
 
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