Politics Today

[arthur]

Yes, thanks for letting me know how you see it, yet again. You haven't told me yet what you would say to the 17.4 million were Brexit to be cancelled? Please enlighten...

Firstly, the 17.4 million is not one amorphous mass who all think the same thing and all voted to leave the EU for the same reason, but then, as you will doubtless point out, I've told you this before!

So there are lots of different things to say to lots of different people, and I've highlighted most of them already, so won't bore you and others further. You do have my assurance though that I will not write them all off as thick racists. However I might dare to point out to you that the view of the majority at any one time isn't always "right" and has to be obeyed at all costs. I give you the legalisation of homosexuality in 1967, the abolition/suspension of capital punishment in 1965, the granting of votes for (some) women in 1918 and even more minor things like the congestion charge, compulsory seat belts and residents' parking schemes - it is unlikely any of these had majority support when they were enacted but all of them, even the scrapping of capital punishment, do now...

You will argue, very reasonably, that none of these were put to the public in a referendum the outcome of which was not acted on. Which is why I have always thought it would be a democratic outrage for Parliament to simply cancel Brexit without first having another referendum or a general election. But I realise this still makes me an enemy of the people and someone prepared to spit in the face of 17.4 million...

 

[arthur]

Yet more TORY LIES emanating from the Cum Mings orifice!

Fake news row as Tory chiefs claim Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal has already 'passed' Parliament

Yes last night I saw a dreadful Tory woman on Newsnight trotting this rubbish out, unchallenged by the useless Mark Urban

 

[IndoMike]

I could go into chapter and verse on the Tory austerity agenda, but whoever had won the 2010 GE would’ve had to engage in the rationalisation of public spending. I voted for Labour’s policy of making the cuts over a longer period personally.

Tavy : the Tories just don't have any empathy for those who are at the bottom of the food chain. They don't understand their problems and they don't care. They should all be made to live in a deprived area for a year so that they can get it. If Johnson could/would do that I might consider voting for him.
It is the duty of a government to look after the weakest /poorest members of society. This government has failed miserably.
People talk about the trickle down effect, but money and opportunity doesn't trickle down very far. The elite doesn't want the lower classes to be empowered
Now, if you say this is a rant, Tavers, tell.me where I'm wrong.

 

[arthur]

Oh Jeremy Corbyn

The South West is obscure and there's a train to Orkney.

Taxi for Jeremy...

 

[elginCity]

Yes last night I saw a dreadful Tory woman on Newsnight trotting this rubbish out, unchallenged by the useless Mark Urban

The Labour woman didn’t come across so well either, and then to add Tice to the mix, well, made for some depressing viewing all round.

 

[spanky]

The problem with the current incumbents is that 80% of them were happy to voted be in on a manifesto promise to enact the referendum result, but as yet have failed to do so.

But this simply isn't true. Labour manifesto acknowledged the referendum, and they campaigned to leave on Norway ticket. That would have upheld the result of the ref.

To claim they stood on a carte blanche "leave the EU" platform is simply dishonest.

 

[Mr Jinx]

Firstly, the 17.4 million is not one amorphous mass who all think the same thing and all voted to leave the EU for the same reason, but then, as you will doubtless point out, I've told you this before!

So there are lots of different things to say to lots of different people, and I've highlighted most of them already, so won't bore you and others further. You do have my assurance though that I will not write them all off as thick racists. However I might dare to point out to you that the view of the majority at any one time isn't always "right" and has to be obeyed at all costs. I give you the legalisation of homosexuality in 1967, the abolition/suspension of capital punishment in 1965, the granting of votes for (some) women in 1918 and even more minor things like the congestion charge, compulsory seat belts and residents' parking schemes - it is unlikely any of these had majority support when they were enacted but all of them, even the scrapping of capital punishment, do now...

You will argue, very reasonably, that none of these were put to the public in a referendum the outcome of which was not acted on. Which is why I have always thought it would be a democratic outrage for Parliament to simply cancel Brexit without first having another referendum or a general election. But I realise this still makes me an enemy of the people and someone prepared to spit in the face of 17.4 million...

I too have argued that people voted Leave for hundreds if not thousands of reasons. The problem you will find is that if you don't honour the first Brexit vote, you're not going to be able to send out hundreds of different messages as to why. Well you can, but then you're going to end up like Labour and its current Brexit stance (i.e. come across as somewhere between confused and disingenuous).

So given all that, what would your simple message be to the 17.4 million?

 

[arthur]

The Labour woman didn’t come across so well either, and then to add Tice to the mix, well, made for some depressing viewing all round.

Yes, I turned to Peston to find the saintly Grieve sandwiched between Nandy and Francois. Then the Saj appeared telling me the Brexit bill had passed through Parliament and I could take no more...

 

[arthur]

So given all that, what would your simple message be to the 17.4 million?

I don't believe in simple messages - they don't end well!

 

[tavyred]

Tavy : the Tories just don't have any empathy for those who are at the bottom of the food chain. They don't understand their problems and they don't care. They should all be made to live in a deprived area for a year so that they can get it. If Johnson could/would do that I might consider voting for him.
It is the duty of a government to look after the weakest /poorest members of society. This government has failed miserably.
People talk about the trickle down effect, but money and opportunity doesn't trickle down very far. The elite doesn't want the lower classes to be empowered
Now, if you say this is a rant, Tavers, tell.me where I'm wrong.

I think the Tory austerity era is/was made worse by their eagerness to politicise the cuts, the swingeing cuts to certain public services IMO could’ve been offset by a general rise in taxes and by not initially ring fencing the health, education and welfare budgets.