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Well as it go to town on the Scouse tonight.....

Phil Sayers

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.....it's time to cut the crap and point to the real problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

Never forgiven, never forgotten but as usual the best fans in the world tell you it's somebody elses fault. Their 'apology' a few years ago brought a wry smile - 'oh I'm so sorry we murdered your fans.'

Justice for the 39 - ban the scum from Europe forever.
 

IBA

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I don't really understand your motive for this, is it sympathy for the victims or are you using this thread and tragic events to which you refer as a vehicle for anti-Liverpool sentiments?
 

angelic upstart

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I don't really understand your motive for this, is it sympathy for the victims or are you using this thread and tragic events to which you refer as a vehicle for anti-Liverpool sentiments?
I'd suggest it was about justice.

Here to help.
 

Phil Sayers

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It's both. I have a huge amount of sympathy for the victims and it really grates with me that the one football disaster that can actually be pointed squarely as being the fault of one set of fans is so readily swept under the carpet by the media. Liverpool are regularly described in the media as being the best fans in the world without a mention of this - unlike for example Leeds who have never been responsible for anything on that scale but are regularly berated (and rightly so) for their behaviour.

I also possess anti-Liverpool sentiments that might be partially to blame for me starting this thread but I would like to think I would have similar contempt for any set of fans responsible for the like - although I might not start a thread about it if that makes any sense?
 

angelic upstart

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Phil,

Whilst I admire your honesty, you missed a proper trick on the fishing front then.

Here to help.
 

IBA

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Phil, I just wondered if you would support banning of all City fans forever ,(from a specific competition) if a group of Exeter spectators were ,heaven forbid, responsible for triggering a similar disaster.
 

josh4ecfc64

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Justice for the 96 too.
 
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Phil,you are granted your opion of the hysel troubles,but I was there ,not behind the goal but from the stand on the right.For about an hour before the big crush, fans on the Italian side started to throw rocks and rubble at the English fans,I say English because a lot of the fans were not Liverpool fans but just there to support an English team .The police did nothing to stop the italians from throwing objects.The English fans had enough by now and started to throw back the rocks,a guy then from the Italian side produced a gun and atempted to fire it towards the English,I have only seen that incident again once before and I wander why this is never brought up.Then of course the tragic events unfolded English fans started to push towards the Italians and they retreated to the side where the wall was and then it collapsed.It could have easily been the other way round and English fans got crushed.There were just as many Italian hoolagans as English and we can never change history but I dont know of any set of fans who would not protect there friends and there own safty.I am not making excuses but there should have been proper segragation the police sholud have stopped the rock throwing,they should have stopped the English fans from pushing and the ground should have been made safe before the kick off.Trust me most of the people in the crowd were punished enough just by being there so to keep and still blame all Liverpool fans 25 years on is in my opion unjust.Lets all prey this kind of accident never happens again.
 

elginCity

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I would have similar contempt for any set of fans responsible for the like
..and you know what, during the early 80s it COULD quite easily have been 'any set of fans responsible'.

Opposition fans charging one another was a common occurence. Millwall infamously charged the Luton fans, and rioted so badly that it headlined the main News, only a couple of months prior to Heysel.

'Charging' was rife at the time, the early 80s really were that dire.

Not condoning or justifying what happenened, just making the point that but for fate, you could now be condemning any one of a number of major British clubs at that time.
 

Red the Paper

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..and you know what, during the early 80s it COULD quite easily have been 'any set of fans responsible'.

Opposition fans charging one another was a common occurence. Millwall infamously charged the Luton fans, and rioted so badly that it headlined the main News, only a couple of months prior to Heysel.

'Charging' was rife at the time, the early 80s really were that dire.

Not condoning or justifying what happenened, just making the point that but for fate, you could now be condemning any one of a number of major British clubs at that time.
Agree Elgin, however Liverpool fans (and they were Liverpool fans) did it at Heysel which lead to loss of life and drunken Liverpool fans without tickets(yes the Police were culpable too) caused the needless deaths of 96 of their own at Hillsborough.

Didn't drunk ticketless Liverpool fans also force there way into a recent European Cup Final against AC Milan?

Whilst it could happen to any other team, it doesn't.
 
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